[WM] Stormtroopers

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[nikomas]

And shrecks are not supposed to fight the pershing anyway storm or gren, that's never going to end well... kinda when you watch tigers gobble up rangers and sometimes airborne like candy.

[GrayWolf]

You can still take dual shrecks on Stormtroopers, which is a very good reason to take them over Grenadiers

280 ammo, which can be killed in a second. I would not take 2 Shreks on a 4-man squad, because of tank rushes and arty.

[Hicks58]

GrayWolf? With misinformation?

It's more likely than you think.

Storm shrecks were dropped in price when their cloak got the boot - Dual shrecks are 230 MU which is a grand total of 10 MU more than buying 2 of them individually on standard Grenadiers. Single shrecks for Grenadiers are 110 MU and 120 MU for Storms.

You've got the advantage of 2 Shrecks on 5 pop with 95 HP per man for a reasonable price.

[tank130]

How about you both get back on topic so no one has to remove you from the balance forum........

[Smokaz]

Graywolf, you have been sent a PM about this. Why you choose to partake in this behaviour, I dont know. At any rate, consider yourself banned from the balance forum from this point. Dont reply further to this topic.

If you have complaints, please send a PM.

Shab, more offtopic in balance forum and you're next. If someone is doing offtopic, we don't reply to it.

[jackmccrack]

I like Stormies the way they are now. They are a tough frontline unit.

[XIIcorps]

I like Stormies the way they are now. They are a tough frontline unit.

They're no tougher then grens, give or take what 10hp, over priced by 40mp, expensive abeit rather ineffective (2x Mp44's,  bundle nades), require vet 1 for cover cloak.
Now im fine with the new way they have to camo, hated active stealthboy camo they had before, But something has got to give to make them a viable option as assault inf which as far as I can tell, is what they're ment to be.

I dont want them to over shadow grens or kch, but in their current state they feel personally worse off then grens.

[Hicks58]

Uh huh XII.

You've clearly not been reading correctly, they have +15 HP over Grenadiers, which means they can survive tank shells from anything but a Pershing or very lucky TD (Non-reward units, but even then if we include them the list of units that CAN one-shot members is much smaller than the increased list of units that cannot).

That is a MASSIVE difference in survivability, as tanks are the main thing to curb stomp assault infantry. Storms, like all other WM infantry have access to medkits so they can make heavy use of their increased survivability.

Bundle nades are the best grenades in the game, 2x MP44's will allow you to shit on any non-upgraded infantry and 4x MP44's will allow you to use old mobile cloak meaning you can wreck any support weapons on demand and ambush the crap out of any infantry.

Shrecks are much more potent on Storms than Grenadiers as the targets they are fighting cannot wipe half the squad instantly where Grenadiers would be. There's also access to dual shrecks which only defensive can get on Grenadiers.

The idea that they are worse off than Grenadiers is ridiculous.

Their combat ability is fine, and 280 MP isn't a massive amount to ask for an extremely durable and versatile platform.

[aeroblade56]

they cost the same as mandos. and as garry pointed out mandos are really bad.

[Hicks58]

AB 280 MP Rangers 310 MP.

That's a pretty shit argument.

[XIIcorps]

I must just be getting shitty rolls, last few games stormies have been getting 1 shotted by lees, chaffees and croms.

I also just find the unit is a mess, 4x mp44s give stealthboy cloak, 2x gives cover cloak, 2x shreck is cover cloak ? and 1x shreck is ?

Yes bundle nade is the best dmg and splash wise, but it also costs the most, has 1 use and a slightly longer timer, thus out of cloak is. easier to dodge.

would it be bad to trial them with AB armor for the -moving acc % so they can charge ?

[Hicks58]

Getting one shotted by any of those vehicles would only happen if you took previous damage, which is what medkits are for. If they are ramming tanks like Lees, Chaffees and Cromwells down your throat, where is your support? A single Storm squad is 5 pop, all of those are in the 8-12 range. Storms are not intended to be used alone as a solve-all-your-problems unit. The only exception to this is when you give them 4x MP44's and use them for raiding.

1x Shreck is also cover cloak, that's consistency for all but one upgrade making it a mess how?...

Bundle nades will let you wipe out any support weapon you catch it with instantly, and will turn any regular infantry into chunks, especially if caught either off guard or suppressed. You can also opt for 4x MP44's + bundle nade which whilst expensive, is ridiculously dangerous levels of AI.

Yes it would be bad to trial them with AB armour. It's like people want them to be able to tank everything and kill everything at the same time, which they very nearly already do as far as infantry go.

[NightRain]

In my opinion having them have active camo with everything but schrecks would be one way to go, schrecks could have tank buster cover cloak though, but not active one.

[GrayWolf]

In my opinion having them have active camo with everything but schrecks would be one way to go, schrecks could have tank buster cover cloak though, but not active one.

I would give them elite armor in cost of camo. Totally. Why? Cause they are Shocktruppen. Why won't we make a sabotage group or sth and we just leave Stormies as a heavy infantry? Even with elite armor, they're not as good as oaks (Which have nearly the same price - 20 ammo difference with STGs). Oaks even get better doctrinal upgrades and stormies are much more easily suppreses, which means 1 HMG and you can fail the whole push. I know Blitz and Terror are two different doctrines, but the only serious difference is :
- off-maps
- You take KT or Tiger.
- Terror : tank defensive buffs (+ more AoE), Blitz : tanks offensive buffs.

Do as you want, but also having bigger variation of reward/doctrinal infantry wouldn't be a bad idea.

[ick312]

elite armor was on ranger a mistake.

and that mistake shouldnt be repeated on stormies, who are far cheaper.

but at the moment, they are a bad choice for their current price

[XIIcorps]

elite armor was on ranger a mistake.

and that mistake shouldnt be repeated on stormies, who are far cheaper.

but at the moment, they are a bad choice for their current price

310mp for 6 men with elite armor vs 280mp for 4 men with elite armor.
Theres a big difference to survivability and offensive ability their ick for a measily 30mp.

Grens get elite armor from middle Blitz T4, which effectivly negates your "far cheaper" argument.

I mean KCH by default are 290mp 3 man elite armor, no one bats an eye.
Why ? because its only 3 men, and any losses by the squad reduces dps by 33%

[aeroblade56]

elite armor was on ranger a mistake.

and that mistake shouldnt be repeated on stormies, who are far cheaper.

but at the moment, they are a bad choice for their current price

no one even uses rangers.

[ick312]

The stupidity in the balance discussions reaches new levels.

310mp for 6 men with elite armor vs 280mp for 4 men with elite armor.
Theres a big difference to survivability and offensive ability their ick for a measily 30mp.

You are aware of "shouldNT" = should not? - read before you argue.

Grens get elite armor from middle Blitz T4, which effectivly negates your "far cheaper" argument.

Grens get elite armor at mid t4? YES and what do others get? Tank reaper, APCR, Omniscienes: defnitly competetive to an elite armor buff.

I mean KCH by default are 290mp 3 man elite armor, no one bats an eye.
Why ? because its only 3 men, and any losses by the squad reduces dps by 33%

OMG i totally forgot that KCH cost NO AMMO - thx for reminding me, THANK YOU

no one even uses rangers.

IF you would spend time on the battlefield instead of trolling in the forums, then you would see them

[aeroblade56]

The stupidity in the balance discussions reaches new levels.

You are aware of "shouldNT" = should not? - read before you argue.
Grens get elite armor at mid t4? YES and what do others get? Tank reaper, APCR, Omniscienes: defnitly competetive to an elite armor buff.
OMG i totally forgot that KCH cost NO AMMO - thx for reminding me, THANK YOU

IF you would spend time on the battlefield instead of trolling in the forums, then you would see them

don't derail the thread please.

I for one think that they are fine maybe they could use a minor tweak. no way in hell should they get cloaked on schreks. or elite armor ever again.

[XIIcorps]

The stupidity in the balance discussions reaches new levels.

You are aware of "shouldNT" = should not? - read before you argue.
Grens get elite armor at mid t4? YES and what do others get? Tank reaper, APCR, Omniscienes: defnitly competetive to an elite armor buff.
OMG i totally forgot that KCH cost NO AMMO - thx for reminding me, THANK YOU

I dont think you realise what elite armor can do for grens ick, they can survive tank shots already.

I waved ammo costs because they are irrelivant for the sake of the argument 3xmp44 110mu vs 2xmp44/4xmp44 60-120mu