Recon tommies

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[Smokaz]

Has gone out of style as anything else than snipers, spotting being overruled by cct etc.

I suggest to give them something more to differentiate them from tommies. And also let more doctrine abilities and unlocks be made avaialble to them.

[GrayWolf]

how about giving them +12 sight when they don't move, but take -5 sight normally?

[ick312]

the problem about those guys is that their "recon snipe" has a dps of 80 on long range. A value that is usually only given on the fragile Sniper bases. On a 5 man unit its pretty wackey and, if spammed, can be pretty game breaking.


i remember old stalingrad veteran - Gren with Recon Snipe, allies were crying, even it took only 16%/20% of their Squad HP/Firepower and not 25%

[NightRain]

Unlike most recon units, Recon tommies can fight. 4 standard rifles 1 shittier compared to 5 rifles.

[Korpisolttu]

As brit RCA & RCE lacks snipers compared to other factions and their all doc snipers, I quess it's just fair that they have best mobile sniper killer combo = recon in brencarrier?

i remember old stalingrad veteran - Gren with Recon Snipe, allies were crying, even it took only 16%/20% of their Squad HP/Firepower and not 25%

What did gren recon cost compared to tommy recon anyways?

[clonetroopers]

RCE
What did gren recon cost compared to tommy recon anyways?

wtf is RCE
Dafuq, its Royal Scottish Engineers....

[ick312]

As brit RCA & RCE lacks snipers compared to other factions and their all doc snipers, I quess it's just fair that they have best mobile sniper killer combo = recon in brencarrier?
What did gren recon cost compared to tommy recon anyways?

i think 45 ammo

[nikomas]

Given that the recon snipe has a cooldown of 180 seconds, given 80 damage (sniped gren) you've got a dps of... 0.44 damage per second. Don't wanna speak about cost efficency in terms of dps here ick 

Edit: Oh sorry, 240 seconds so... 0.33 damage per second.


Seriously, something on a 4 minute cooldown isn't really spammable.

[GrayWolf]

Given that the recon snipe has a cooldown of 180 seconds, given 80 damage (sniped gren) you've got a dps of... 0.44 damage per second. Don't wanna speak about cost efficency in terms of dps here ick 

Edit: Oh sorry, 240 seconds so... 0.33 damage per second.


Seriously, something on a 4 minute cooldown isn't really spammable.

It's not about DPS and you know it. Bad troll Niko.

[ick312]

Given that the recon snipe has a cooldown of 180 seconds, given 80 damage (sniped gren) you've got a dps of... 0.44 damage per second. Don't wanna speak about cost efficency in terms of dps here ick 

Edit: Oh sorry, 240 seconds so... 0.33 damage per second.


Seriously, something on a 4 minute cooldown isn't really spammable.

ähm  yes it is. Ask mysth.
And to your recharge thing. you are right if you calcuate it like that. But fact is you do 1 shot on 45 range ( i think ) and run away. thats the point. So in that second u made 80 damage

[Smokaz]

Ick, argue with some sense and try to post a bit better.

1 man every 4 minutes... holy shit, in 40 minutes you have killed 10 men!

What I forgot to mention is that I wanted RCA grenades and scoped enfields to be made available for recons.

[NightRain]

Ick, argue with some sense and try to post a bit better.

1 man every 4 minutes... holy shit, in 40 minutes you have killed 10 men!

What I forgot to mention is that I wanted RCA grenades and scoped enfields to be made available for recons.

Smokaz you forget that Recon tommy is a tommy squad with one poorer rifle. It lacks firepower of a proper tommy squad in that regard but can still perform infantry fighting role like a unupgraded tommy squad. (UNLESS their weapons are weaker, like all weapons which I doubt) and can still recrew machinery should so be required. On top of it, as long as 1 member is alive they can use snipe every 4 minutes and scout ahead.

Because it is a inf squad, it is harder to chase after snipers however- well protected ones that is, but it is a double edged sword.

[Smokaz]

That Tommy squad is pretty shit tho, and it is extremely necessary to have a recon in your company, or FSJ sniper will tear you apart. However, once the FSJ sniper is gone, the squad is just that, a slightly weaker tommy with a snipè button.

Brits are boring enough in the infantry department as it is and the recon deserves a touch up.

Your 1 man sniping strategy is perfectly doable, but it requires a lot of micro. You can't  blob snipe (select 5 x 1 man recon, snipe) a gren squad, it will cause of lot of ai issues. If you want to risk the unit like this and wait 4 minutes for .. one man... to kill one man... it's balanced through the sheer undertaking.

[ick312]

Ick, argue with some sense and try to post a bit better.

1 man every 4 minutes... holy shit, in 40 minutes you have killed 10 men!

What I forgot to mention is that I wanted RCA grenades and scoped enfields to be made available for recons.

well smokaz - i am blunt with you:

who played regularly the past 3 years? tell me? i know what i have seen.

 like it or not, the point is that a Gren squad loses 25% of its fire power before it can give a single shot!

The strategy is to snipe and then fall back. Axis have the watch, allies have the time. cheers!

getting it?

[Smokaz]

25% or 33% of its kar98 firepower in most cases. FSJ and assault grens (and to a extent - pios) are valid examples of where the recon snipe hurts.  You can stop being so sloppy for starters.. your shitty "Dps" example derailed the thread.

Not to mention that the same condensed health that falls prey to snipers, is the reason why axis infantry can survive tank shots in cover, or survive longer under small arms fire.

It's a really uninteresting discussion with a cooldown of 4 minutes.

Unlike most recon units, Recon tommies can fight. 4 standard rifles 1 shittier compared to 5 rifles.

Tell me about those recon units that fight poorer than the recon section, other than the jeep. Cause I assume you are talking about offensive power here?

A vanilla tommy squad is bad bad bad

[Mysthalin]

I'm not entirely sure what to say on the recon tommy squad, in all fairness. As a base unit - I do not believe it is really that great a unit. Sure, it's somewhat spammable, and it has a fun ability - but have in mind that every single one of my recon tommy spam companies were built around a T4 that buffs it, or I'd be better off just getting something else.

In the olden days there was the ridiculously great +15 range, which was then replaced by a massive reduction in snipe recharge. Combined with veterancy it really made for some great recon tommies - but it would be rather hard to make an efficient recon tommy company with more than, say, 14 squads of them.

It might seem like a lot at first glance - but 14 squads of infantry being all your infantry really is not all that impressive in the grand scheme of things, and it relies entirely on the recon sections having high-value infantry to snipe. It was designed specifically against gren spam (with varying success against storm spam) and HMG walls. That is not something you tend to see all that often in the current metagame - so it becomes hard to judge whether the recon tommy truly is underperforming, or if it is simply not relevant due to the FoTM (Or lack there-of).

So, I'd say I wouldn't really support a change outright, nor would I necessarily be against one.

[aeroblade56]

Imo i used them alot before the allied victory over berlin.

pretty garbage yes they can put a hurt on grens at least if you field 2 you can take a grens squad to 2 guys making it pretty weak.

problem i had was really when people actually were smart and just pushed instead of pullback. i played someone with oaks leaves and i got straight up wrecked. i played someone with defensive grens and i couldnt do to much.

everyone talks about how the squad has regular tommie rifles, well guess what those are like the worse rifles ingame and if anyone has used them without a officer knows there is just no point in actually taking the damn things without a officer.

[Smokaz]

@MYST

What I was getting at in the original post, was that:

- Once the sniper target is defeated, this unit is just a tommy squad for 4 minutes -> boring

- If you want to use a spotter, the CCT gets such ridicolous bonuses now and survivability for 3 pop, that the recon receiving the sight range to do this job, isn't very meaningful

- It could get to use more of the doctrine uses, currently there's nothing you can buy for them


There's so much we could do with the recon to make it less boring. Make it a more elite type of squad, with higher cost. Make it a smaller squad? Give it some secondary role other than +10 sight (in a land of much more sight) and a snipe every 4 minutes.

[XIIcorps]

They have not changed since Vcoh, apart from snupe veing in a 4 min cooldown and not costing 25mu on a 30s cooldown.

they are a joke, a 5 pop scouting unit that can be supressed is highly inefficient to cost.

[Hicks58]

Recon Tommies are actually pretty damned good for what they cost.

It's just that you can't enhance them further. They take the spot of mainline infantry in a company, and taking these guys as your mainline infantry means that you're screwed for AI after the snipe ability is used.

So, the problem lies in lack of upgrades. What upgrades to give them however, is up for discussion. Grenades come to mind, but full on LMG's or HHAT seems foolhardy.