R017 Feedback thread

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[Hicks58]

General
- All vehicles have had their acceleration and deceleration reduced by 10%
- All non-scouting vehicles(Not jeep, bike, ketten etc.) have had their sight ranges reduced. Heavy Tanks by 5m, all others by 2.5m

American
- Marines have been added as a non-doctrinal unit for the United States. They have been altered in three ways.
     a.) They have had their bazooka option removed.
     b.) They now use a modified garand rather than the springfield rifle. (2-1.5 base cooldown compared to normal garand)
     c.) They will be dropped to 280 manpower
- Riflemen have been given the bazooka upgrade non-doctrinally for 55 munitions.

Commonwealth
-

Wehrmacht
-

Panzer Elite
-

Map Changes
 - Villers-Bocage has been added back to the map list.

Patch notes from R017 are presented above, feel free to give any feedback on the changes in this thread. Keep it civil and to the point, clutter will be cleaned up with little warning.

[Shabtajus]

Marines still has grenades and equiped with lmgs now they can stand a ground against superior axis infantry. They still cost 300 mp instead of 280 like they should according to the patch notes. I say it should stay at 300 tbh. Marines already rapes volks and pgrens pretty easy and making them cost less will create some balance isues.

Zoox makes game a little bit broken since pumas, ACs, lahts and even ostwinds are pretty shit now. Looks like blob of zoox with nades and sniper is pretty hardcore allied strat to go ftw.

As for nerfing tanks. Well i a fan of playing with armour some i can sound a lil bit biased but i am not sure what was the point nerfing range. I am cool with nerfing accel/deccel so no more lol tanks stoping, reversing and gtfo'ing from sticky situstions but nerfing range was a bad idea.

[TheVolskinator]

Weapon range is unchanged, only sight range has been reduced.

[Batgirl]

For reaseons shab pointed out I dont like the zook upgrade either. A more viable sticky wouldve been my preferrement.
Combining with vehicle accel decel nerf sounds feels like no light vehicles for now. But we can live with this, the fun is to find out the most op shit and utilise it !!

[Dauntless07]

Zooks are terrible against Tanks, so I don't see the issue. LV can't massacre Rifles now? Oh, boo- f-ing-hoo. We'll just have to use more combined arms and bring infantry to fight them instead. Personally, I'm loving this update so far.

[Hicks58]

For reaseons shab pointed out I dont like the zook upgrade either. A more viable sticky wouldve been my preferrement.
Combining with vehicle accel decel nerf sounds feels like no light vehicles for now. But we can live with this, the fun is to find out the most op shit and utilise it !!

LV's are still pretty viable, just not as immediately effective as suicide units considering both US and CW have options to put the hurt on that strategy with the introduction of non-doctrinal zooks. We will be watching to see how it rolls out, and if LV's or HHAT options will need looking at as a result.

Zooks are terrible against Tanks, so I don't see the issue. LV can't massacre Rifles now? Oh, boo- f-ing-hoo. We'll just have to use more combined arms and bring infantry to fight them instead. Personally, I'm loving this update so far.

Keep the commentary professional in the feedback thread, your comment may not seem like much but it's not far off being bait for some.

[Shabtajus]

So few last games i have decided run balanced companies playing as axis. Got a feeling like being smacked in face. It's not like i play bad. I don't say i not god but calling myself a decent is a fair point. The last few days i was testing balanced companies.

So let's get back on track. What i have noticed it's a strange meta game we got here. You can't rely on grenadiers anymore since marines will beat you pretty hard. If trying to atack frontline it gets even worse since lmgs can't shoot on the move.  Nebel is shitty options as your so called "arty". It leaves you with sniper or mortar as you main indirect. Both are good options but makes you slow and you have to camp. Even so allies can rush you with meat shield riflemens equiped with nades supported by marines. 

Looks like tanks losing accel/deccel forces you eat extra atg shot. Ofcourse its not bad idea to prevent tank span and focus more on infantry based game but now we have shermans beating p4s each time or crocs bouncing p4's shots. You can not field panther since it soaks to much pop plus it's pretty expensive which does zero job against infantry. Overall buying panther is a bad investment. Same role goes to stug. At least it's cheap. M10/m18 beats p4/ostwind and leaves a hole in your AI department and like i said grenadiers can't do it aswell.

We got used to doctrines and buffs what created a feeling axis being OP but now with doctrines being removed you can not say axis have superior tanks because at the end of the day they dont. P4 equals sherman. Panther does not fit in cureent meta at all so as stugs ir p4ists. Axis lost advantageg with marines being introduced to mod. Riflemens will under perform volks or pgrens each time they will fight.

So now there is no logic like we had: axis has less but way better units and allies have more but shittier units. Looks like now we have axis losing strenght of units but not price and in meantime allies got better without paying any price. It's my own personal feeling.

[Dauntless07]

Keep the commentary professional in the feedback thread, your comment may not seem like much but it's not far off being bait for some.

In light of this, and Shab's comments, I'll elaborate a bit in a less harsh tone. My previous comment was not directed towards or intended to disparage anyone in this thread BTW.

I am using mostly Rifles in my Coys, but I have used Marines a few times, which vary over the stages of Marine development, from Springfields(K98), to Garands, to Springfields(Enfields). Obviously, the unit is in an awkward state of testing, trying to find the happy medium of balance. We can talk about Marines in this sense, whether the current form is OP, but arguing the extreme we had before was any better just doesn't make sense to me. Specifically, imagine building US Coys where you know no matter what route you go, where you try to put your focus, you will inevitably have a ton of MP leftover that will have to be spent on Rifles, the only logical US infantry platform, who do nothing but shoot shoot, die die, and kill nothing save the occasional thrown grenade. In short, they were mostly a waste, even at just 200 MP. It was a linear and boring faction to play. Mix in just one other infantry type, Marines, and suddenly you have to somewhat use your brain in your Coy composition.

Now I have to ask, with Axis fielding the best armor/vehicles in the game, (I know it may not be so at the moment, but let's be real here, when Docs come back it will be,) should they also have the best infantry? Should Marines not beat a Grenadier squad; they do cost 40 MP extra after all? I think that is a fair discussion to have at this point, just how strong should the Marines be, and should Axis heavy infantry beat them 1 on 1. Keep in mind, that if the answer to the latter is yes, the US will fall back on Rifles, which are excellent deterrents of LV spam thanks to Zooks, but are otherwise just as weak as before.

I'm all for nerfing Marines BTW, if they create static and boring gameplay, but I do think the current Axis sniper invulnerability needs to be removed in the process, perhaps by giving the US a better way to utilize their own Sniper counters. Otherwise, we will see the same stale sieges regardless of whether the Axis could simply rush US positions.

[Batgirl]

Lets not go to the sniper-topic. Just because you cant counter-snipe doesnt mean the better players cant. Hunting for the counter-snipe and the faster camo in cover and reduced moving accuracy etc. are all part of the micro and micro is fun. Im sure once the doctrines and extraunits come back you get your easy snipercounters back. In the meanwhile vcoh sniper battles xxxx yea!

[tank130]

Lets not go to the sniper-topic. Just because you cant counter-snipe doesnt mean the better players cant. Hunting for the counter-snipe and the faster camo in cover and reduced moving accuracy etc. are all part of the micro and micro is fun. Im sure once the doctrines and extraunits come back you get your easy snipercounters back. In the meanwhile vcoh sniper battles xxxx yea!

Good game design is established by having good balance first, then implementing doctrines. If we need doctrines to balance the game, we are doing it wrong.

Doctrines should create a specialization.