Arti t4 spam - Blitzkrieg point of view

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[CommanderNewbie]

If you guys think things are so inbalanced and that the axis are so omgwtf OP, you should start a new thread and you can go on your crusade for hours but pls dont try to lure this thread in that direction.
What is unacceptable isnt the fact that youre taking this thread out of the original point, but that youre clearly implying that the only way for allies to stand against axis UBER war machine is the artillery spam which is bullshit in my opinion.
Not only youre saying that eir is imbalanced but youre also a spam supporter. Its like youre forced to do it, theres no other way.

I feel suddenly that atgs dont penetrate panthers anymore, mgs dont suppress axis infantry, allied mortars shoot flowers instead of shells, and snipers are using air guns.

I respect your opinion anyway. But this thread wasnt made in an attempt to change things now, but to shoot for a better, fair, more balanced game in 2.0.

And if you want to have your fun with artillery t4 spam, with the new doctrines, axis want it too.
I'm proposing a new t4 blitz arti doctrine, of rocket barages falling on 1.5.
This way we can share the fun, of bombing each other in to oblivion every single game.
And why dont all the new doctrines have t4 artillery, in fact why dont we make it the only t4 possible, since well its so strategical and so tactical and yet so not vcoh.

Well, now that your true feelings are out, I can genuinely say that you should switch doctrines to defensive.

[muha1]

By the way, if I remember, offmap has what, 5 uses? How can you spamm something that is so limited? If you are going up against 4 T4 artillery allies, then ya, the 20 uses will be annoying, but if they are infantry, then you can counter them.

so youll lose a few weapon teams, so wat? you got your 170mp volks to throw away for re-crewing.

[Schultz]

Well, now that your true feelings are out, I can genuinely say that you should switch doctrines to defensive.

lol..
Why do you keep insisting on me changing doctrines? I do quite well with my doctrine and like it very much thanks.
You keep isolating this whole issue on a personal level. Why would i want to change doctrine ?Im on 76 - 33 and i feel ive been doing allright.
This is not a thread to gloat about my stats and i dont consider myself good in any case, its not about me and how to deal with arti either.
Its about arti spam in general, on both factions and on the future of having 2.0.
I just wanted to throw in my blitz experience for the arti t4 trend spam
Really how can people keep missing the point ?

[CommanderNewbie]

Because you keep saying that you need arty to deal with the arty.  If you can't cut it with Blitz, then switch to a doctrine that has what you want.

Now, if you're doing just fine with blitz, what is the issue?  Everyone has their own difficulties, and if every situation was easily managable for you in blitz, then what would be the point of playing against you on allies?

[Eleven]

By the way, if I remember, offmap has what, 5 uses? How can you spamm something that is so limited? If you are going up against 4 T4 artillery allies, then ya, the 20 uses will be annoying, but if they are infantry, then you can counter them.

so youll lose a few weapon teams, so wat? you got your 170mp volks to throw away for re-crewing.

Good luck finding a usable weapon after that barrage...

[muha2]

I simply cant understand what is wrong with allied artillery in your mind?

If its the fact that all allies got offmap, false, not every one goes for that  T4.

The 1.5s timer? Well, I prefer no smoke at all really, that would make it somewhat more fun IMO.

the howitzer is just as loud, if not louder than a nebel, so you can clearly hear it, and the calli is not as allmighty as people claim, I use one (not T4) and on some maps, its impossible to use because of the arc.

[Greater Evil]

I see no problem with allied Artillery. Sure its generally more effective then the axis counter part, but thats just it, its a LITTLE more effective. Over all artillery can have little or no impact on games its all how you use it. If you are having problems with it, then you should try something different to take it out.

Also you mentioned your record 77-33 or something like that. Well if you are winning against this unstoppable ultra spammable unit that everyone uses (as you claim) then its really not that unstoppable is it?

[Thtb]

My  70 inf and 5 tank kill callipe says the greater evil might be wrong and has no clue whats hes talking about;

http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd246/Thtb/?action-view&current=relic00633.jpg

Also Anyone said blitz?

[LionelAxis]

It's no fun having all of my support squads killed by a nebel barrage since they can't pack up and move fast enough to not get burned to death either.

I have to call bullshit on this.  The Nebelwerfer makes a loud racket when it fires.  If you chose not to move your shit when you hear it, don't blame it on the weapon.

Except support squads take forever to evac from an area. Even if you move immediately upon hearing the loud nebel going off you probably won't make it out of the area (depending on where it hits and some random chance, of course).

[Wolster1]

I reckon the way to make blitz stand a chance against arty spammers is just to lower the Stormy shreck price to the Gren price & then we can field a sufficiently sized stealth force which can deal with nobbage arty spammers.
 It may even act as a deterant to arty spamming at all, re if you have put all your pop cap into arty their will b large gaps in the front line for infiltration units to exploit, + just let them guess where half your field strength is when its in stealth.

 Tbh tho i imagine all the whiny ass pro allied players will just jump on any suggestion that may force them to use even the slightest amount of micro skills, when there Arty button finger is so oversized as is at present (seriously dont u cowardly allied players like to get up close & personal now & then just for a change rather than fire & forget).

 I dont think anyone really suggests allies shouldnt have stronger arty, but at the same time no single unit/offmap ought to have the capabilty to win/massively effect games to the extent that it makes it the only way to win a game(as is now), allies win games by arty abuse in one form or another, so they need another option for them to win to at least break up the monotony.

I would suggest items such as making their M10 vets more aggressive, allowing limited Baz use on rifles, + anything else that makes them a changeable side to play not just arty abusers(as axis the only skills u need to learn atm is arty avoidance - pretty naff position)

[Sach]

I find artillery so zzzzz. I don't use it and i rarely take any damage from it whichever side i play as. But then I don't use HMGs, very few mortars and if i do blob i pay close attention.

I managed to get a game as axis the other day and played two inf allied players. There were 2 on map howitzers and a lot of off map. I think I lost a combined total of 1 hmg 1 mortar and 2 volks squads to them.

I killed 1 howie with a tiger which made them put the second one so far back I could just ignore it.

The real sick thing was my 2 tigers which between them got something like 130 inf kills 7 vehicle and 5 tank kills.


I went calliopes for a while but specced out of it cos its such a waste of time against decent players and if you are against bad players you're going to win even without the arty.

[Haroquen]

Stormy shreck price to the Gren price & then we can field a sufficiently sized stealth force

...with Schrecks.

Ah ha! And now the ulterior motive reveals itself?

[LionelAxis]

So...we should make not only schrecks plentiful, but INVISIBLE SCHRECKS?

Sure, that will solve artillery problems.

It will also solve the "armor problem" too. Pesky allies using those shermans.

[demoner]

I find it funny that nobody uses stealth shreks cause its 170 munitions, one use (after you click retreat since you are behind enemy lines) and nobody uses it.

If its so bad nobody uses it it must be balanced, right ?

BTW, I propose that airborne have to sit there for 50 seconds to get their RRs, you know, so in the future the hummel doesn't get gibbbed by flying death squads.

[LionelAxis]

I'm sure more nerfs to airborne drops would make everyone want to play that doctrine.

[Leafedge]

I think that once again people can't seem to focus on the main issue. It is NOT an issue of balance. That is what everyone doesn't seem to get. It's an issue of fun. It's not fun to sit there and watch artillery fire back and forth, with victory resting on who has a higher tier arty.

[LionelAxis]

True, but sometimes arty can be needed to make a breakthrough or (in allies case, to counteract German mortar range).

But you also have to remember that there's typically a large amount of population devoted to an artillery piece and its guard, so if you nerf the artillery then that player will probably be pretty useless.

[Sach]

Its not fun to use tanks when theres invisible paks on the field but they aren't going to be removed.

[BradAxis]

or the uber cheap shreks

[Haroquen]

Essentially there's no (consesus) agreement on what to do about arty. Cheap Stormie schecks is dropping a ten pound hammer on a cockroach that happens to be on your baby. It will only deal with the Calliopes and Howitzers in terms of arty, and at the same time, will rape allied armor from every direction.
If you nerf the arty, you cut off one of the allie's arms, especially considering the strength of Axis defenses (stealthed AT guns, super pinning MGs, blobs of all varieties, and slow moving heavy tanks).
Now, it may seem that the Axis has a dearth of artillery, but let's look at it. They all have the Nebel available, not the best, but by far better than nothing. One doctrine carries the Stuka, the officer (unless Blitz has that, I cant remember) and Defensive Artillery. Another has the V1, and the Firestorm. Finally, blitz is apperantly the red headed stepchild. Yet, they have cloaked infantry that can purchase SMGs and Schrecks, a powerful heavy tank, and a power that grants them the ability to sprint out of the way if they hear the rumble of a Howie, the screech of a Cali or the buzz of a mustang.
So, Blitz isnt an arty army, they're well, the Blitz army. If you're being hammered, let them burn up their offmap or sneak up on that Cali/Howi while it recharges with a Pak or some Schreck stormies. You'll lose the unit probably, but if the arty bothers you that much, put it in the ground.

tl;dr,

Arty is a necesary evil, deal with it.