Veterncy Experience should be a starting resource

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[HumanShieldNS]

A new army starts with CP but a seasoned player will have more.
A new army starts with resource bonuses but a seasoned player will have more.
A new army starts with zero XP but a seasoned player will have a lot.

I play EiR to play a nice game where I can set up interesting armies and play without buildings and harvesting resources in-game. But I'm going to have to quit pub games because, while I hate grinding, I end up having to send my zero vet against vet squads that wipe me out.

Seasoned players are already going to have more CP and Bonuses why not have a base line XP amount to let new companies compete against seasoned players, who are going to have more XP anyways.

I don't play MMOGs because of grind; persistency can be done in more ways then increasing a players effectiveness in linear terms. CPs are somewhat balanced as increasing effectiveness in horizontal terms, but vet throws everything off.

The range between vet and non-vet is too great, either the bonuses of vet should be lowered or players should start with a base line of XP. CP have a base line to start, XP should have a base line that you need to preserve your units to stay over but wouldn't fall below. This would lessen the gap and create another resource to manage in planning an army.

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

What is this thread suppose to be saying? At the start of a new war everyone is even.

[HumanShieldNS]

The gap in in-game effectiveness created by time put into the mod should be lessened and vet is the biggest issue.

[Leafedge]

I have thought of this before, and liked the idea for awhile, but then I realized that it could go pretty wrong. I run into a lot of players who complain about never being able to keep vet alive. Or players that complain that they can never get a vet 3 unit. I look at these players, and i realize that a lot of their playstyles involves suiciding their units. Or just using them in a manner which i likely to get them wiped out. This change would only mean that there is no penalty for suicide. Vet 3 tank getting away? Well, instead of dropping your vet 3 AB into a possible suicide, drop the vet 1's that will be able to get the tank, die, and you can get back for free anyway!

Come to think of it, what I just said is already a reality. Airborne Elite will do that. As will the defensive doctrine ability that I can't remember right now.

Anyway, its not a totally bad idea, but the thought of a baseline minimum XP for people is not good. It could possibly be implemented effectively as a one time thing something to start people off with, but never something you get back for free if your company gets wiped. It takes all the point out of the risk-reward aspect of the game. Call in the vet 2 unit and risk losing it? or maybe kill a bunch of units and get vet 3 for it? Call in vet 3 and get a better chance at winning the battle? Or lose it and the battle aswell.

Giving a minimum amount of vet in companies would only mean more suicide, more spam, and no chance of having fun.

[Draygon]

Use combined arms well and Vet doesnt matter that much, unless your going against Vet 3 KCH, Vet 3 Tiger/Panther, Vet 3 Pershings, Vet 3 Rangers, well shit, basically Vet 3 anything can be troublesome if you dont deal with it correctly.

If you play allies, MGS work wonders, dont just try and go at people with Riflemen, also put bars on them and you will pwn Axis infantry with the Bar suppression.

If you play axis, if you really want a "bonus" to xp, go defensive and you start with vet 1 right off the bat.

Overall though, in the end.  Veterancy doesnt fix stupid play, or players with no tactics.

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

But it can make average players have some wtf amazing games. Just adjust some veterancy then things will become very nice, I mean there are some stupid vet's (particularly weapon crew vet for the allies atleast). And I hate the KT/Tiger vet because you can't kill it with shermans you are forced to have ATG's or manpack AT. I wouldn't mind the 20% faster turret, but the other stacked 20% is a bit overkill, makes me almost want to switch to next gen.

[salan]

The gap in in-game effectiveness created by time put into the mod should be lessened and vet is the biggest issue.

I gotta completely agree with you, and I for one have brought up this point multiple times over the last year of my existence here.

There are to many differing veriables between a starting company and an established one.  they finally allowed the 2cp/1rb per day after months of discussion.  Maybe when they return to the table this will be something they will again look at.  of course things like this hinder certain actual cp choices, but the CPS themselves were suppose to be changing in 2.0 anyways.

Personally I wish vet bonuses would go down to almost useless levels. ie

vet 1
3% more hitpoints
vet 2
3% less blah blah
vet 3
3% more dmg

vet should be a tracker of how long a unit has survived and fought, not how great its fighting ability will be once it achieves it.  The persistency then becomes survival, and making survival harder due to less bonus's makes that survival more meaningfull.

it takes away the gap as well.

[Draygon]

I agree with you to an extent Salan.  It should be a measure of your ability to mcro units and keep them alive, but at the same time you should be rewarded for keeping those units alive that long.  I know this was supposed to be something in 2.0 with the more than 3 Vet levels.  Im pretty sure they were thinking along the lines of having the first 3 or so vet levels mean almost nothing, and then from there they would get better depending on how long you could keep that unit alive.

Hope they come back to the table soonish it really sux being stuck in a cycle like Ground Hog day.

[AmPmAllied]

Like all MMO style games, it favors the players with time to spare. Ok, get over it, I started a NEW Allied Infantry company, its played 8 games. Most everything is vet 2 and on its way to vet 3.

Its too easy as it is to gain vet. I say leave vet to be significant, but make it harder to achieve. Then again, if that happens Sideskirts needs to move to vet 2 upgrade =)

In closing, this game already panders to the lowest common denomination too much. Its been made easier and easier for people with no skill to play, I don't see a reason why it should be made even easier.

[salan]

you mean this list?  <im sure it is out of date, and I asked dash if it was meant to be public knowledge or not and he said they left it there on purpose.. so whatever.. bout time we can talk about something mod related>


original 2.0 vet tables that were in the works
----


American

Engineers: I#3.04, 5/5RP, 78DT, 2/1/1/1/1
Wire Cutters: 0/0/0/0/0
Flamethrower: I#0.33, 5/4RP, 24DT, 1/0/0/0/0
Demolitions: I#0.10, 3/3RP, 12DT, 2Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Mine Detector: I#0.24, 1/1RP, 0/0/0/0/0
Machine Gun Nest: I#0.32, 4/4RP, 42DT, 0/3/0/0/0
Triage Center: I#0.77, 18/18RP, 42DT, 2/2/0/0/0
Mines: I#0.97, 5/5RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 0/1/1/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.6
Vet1(6): 25% harder to hit
Vet2(25): 15% more accurate
                50% faster repair
Vet3(75): 25% more damage
                50% faster repair (125% total)
Vet4(500): Triple mine detection radius
                  Dual Flamethrower on upgrade
                  50% faster repair (238% total)
Vet5(1250): Double mines on upgrade
                    100% increased health

Riflemen: I#17.62, 10/10RP, 102DT, 3/1/1/1/1
BAR: I#2.71, 6/6RP, 42DT, 2/0/0/0/0
Grenades: I#1.49, 3/3RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Sticky Bombs: I#1.98, 5/5RP, 18DT, 3Uses, 0/0/3/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 25% harder to hit
Vet2(40): Sticky bomb range increased
                10% more accurate
Vet3(120): BAR suppresion increased
                  20% more damage
Vet4(800): Grenade range increased
                  30% more health
Vet5(2000): Lead rifleman uses a sniper rifle

Jeep: I#1.92, 8/8RP, 60DT, 1/1/1/2/1
Vet Modifier:1.6
Vet1(6): 25% harder to hit
Vet2(25): 10% sight range
Vet3(75): 25% harder to hit (56% total)
                10% more damage
Vet4(500): 25% harder to hit (95% total)
                  10% more sight range (21% total)
Vet5(1250): Can detect mines
                    25% sight range (51% total)

Allied HMG: I#3.18, 11/11RP, 78DT, 1/3/1/1/0
AP HMG Rounds: I#4.00, 2/2RP, 1Uses, 0/0/1/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.4
Vet1(7): 25% harder to hit
Vet2(29): 10% more accurate
                15% more suppression
Vet3(86): 20% more damage
                15% more suppression (32% total)
Vet4(571): AP rounds have double damage and penetration
                  40% more suppression (85% total)
Vet5(1429): 150% more health

Allied Mortar: I#1.68, 15/15RP, 102DT, 1/4/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.4
Vet1(7): 25% harder to hit
Vet2(29): 25% faster rate of fire
Vet3(86): 30% faster rate of fire (63% total)
Vet4(571): 30% faster rate of fire (111% total)
                  25% more damage resistant
Vet5(1429): Fires double mortar rounds

Sniper: I#0.83, 24/24RP, 102DT, 1/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.2
Vet1(: 25% harder to hit
Vet2(33): 20% faster rate of fire
Vet3(100): Range +10
Vet4(667): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
                 
Vet5(1667): 50% harder to hit (88% total)
                    25% faster rate of fire (50% total)

57mm ATG: I#2.31, 18/18RP, 78DT, 0/5/8/0/0
AP AT Rounds: I#1.02, 4/4RP, 18DT, 3Uses, 0/0/2/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.4
Vet1(7): +5 weapon range
Vet2(29): 20% more penetration
Vet3(86): 20% more damage
Vet4(571): 50% more damage resistant
                  Increased movement speed
Vet5(1429): 70% more damage
                    unlimited AP rounds

Rangers: I#4.98, 18/18RP, 162DT, 3/0/3/1/1
SMG: I#1.44, 8/8RP, 42DT, 3/0/0/0/0
Grenades: I#1.73, 3/3RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.7
Vet1(14): 25% harder to hit
Vet2(57): 20% more accurate
Vet3(171): Increased grenade range
                  Can fire-up twice as often
Vet4(1143): 40% more accurate (68% total)
Vet5(2857): 100% more health

Airborne: I#11.05, 16/16RP, 138DT, 3/1/1/1/0
Grenades: I#2.79, 3/3RP, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Satchel: I#1.55, 3/3RP, 2Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Recoilless Rifles: I#2.96, 12/12RP, 60DT, 0/0/5/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.8
Vet1(13): 25% harder to hit
Vet2(50): 20% more accurate
Vet3(150): Increased grenade range
                  Can fire-up twice as often
Vet4(1000): No cooldown on grenades and satchels
                    15% increased weapon range
Vet5(2500): 20% increased sight
                    20% increased damage
                    60% harder to hit (100% total)

Halftrack: I#0.91, 11/11RP, 102DT, 1/1/1/4/1
Quad .50 cal: I#0.56, 6/6RP, 60DT, -1/-1/-1/1/0
Vet Modifier:1.4
Vet1(7): 20% faster
Vet2(29): 20% more accurate
Vet3(86): 20% more damage
Vet4(571): 50% more health
Vet5(1429): 75% more health (162% total)

Greyhound AC: I#0.71, 22/22RP, 180DT, 0/0/2/7/4
Armor Skirts: I#0.26, 9/9RP, 42DT, 0/0/0/1/1
.50 cal MG: I#0.30, 6/6RP, 42DT, 0/0/0/1/0
M8 Mines: I#0.28, 4/4RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.8
Vet1(13): 20% faster
Vet2(50):
                20% more accuracy
Vet3(150): 20% more damage
Vet4(1000): 20% more damage (44% total)
                    30% more health
Vet5(2500): 80% more health (134% total)

M10: I#0.71, 30/30RP, 222DT, 0/0/7/4/7
Vet Modifier:0.8
Vet1(13): 20% faster
Vet2(50): 20% more health
Vet3(150): 20% more damage resistant
Vet4(1000): 20% more health (44% total)
                    20% faster
                    20% more penetration
Vet5(2500): 70% more damage

Sherman: I#2.05, 40/40RP, 240DT, 0/0/5/0/8
76mm Gun: I#0.77, 10/10RP, 18DT, 0/0/2/0/0
.50 cal MG: I#0.69, 5/5RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1
Smoke: I#0.34, 3/3RP, 3Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Crab Mine Flail: I#0.14, 2/2RP, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.6
Vet1(17): 20% faster
Vet2(67): 20% faster rate of fire
Vet3(200): 20% more damage
Vet4(1333): 25% more health
                    25% more penetration resistant
                   
Vet5(3333): 35% more health (69% total)
                    35% more penetration resistant (69% total)
                    Gains heavy crush

'Crocodile' Sherman: I#0.66, 45/45RP, 240DT, 0/0/0/0/7
Bulldozer: I#0.28, 2/2RP, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.6
Vet1(17): 20% faster
Vet2(67): 50% faster turret rotation
                50% faster acceleration
Vet3(200): 20% more damage
Vet4(1333): 30% more health
                    40% more range
Vet5(3333): 70% more damage (104% total)
                    Gains heavy crush

'Calliope' Sherman: I#0.52, 50/50RP, 300DT, 0/7/0/0/7
Smoke: I#0.34, 3/3RP, 3Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.3
Vet1(33): 20% faster
Vet2(133): 20% more damage
Vet3(400): +30 barrage range
Vet4(2667): Gains 75mm cannon
Vet5(6667): Upgraded to 76mm cannon
                    40% increased health

Pershing: I#0.78, 70/70RP, 330DT, 0/0/12/0/14
Vet Modifier:0.3
Vet1(33): 20% faster
Vet2(133): 20% more penetration
Vet3(400): 20% more damage
Vet4(2667): Double acceleration
                    No accuracy penalty while moving
                    20% faster (44% total)
Vet5(6667): 100% harder to penetrate

Howitzer: I#1.29, 35/35RP, 240DT, 0/10/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:2.5
Vet1(4): 50% more accurate
Vet2(16): 50% more health
Vet3(48): 20% more damage
Vet4(320): 50% more health (125% total)
                  50% more sight
Vet5(800): 60% faster cooldown



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wehrmacht

Pioneers: I#2.18, 5/5RP, 78DT, 2/1/1/1/1
Wire Cutters: 0/0/0/0/0
Flamethrower: I#0.17, 3/3RP, 42DT, 2/0/0/0/0
Mine Detector: I#0.23, 2/2RP, 0/1/0/0/0
Bunker: I#0.36, 1/1RP, 18DT, 0/1/0/0/0
Bunker: MG42 HMG: I#0.15, 5/5RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/0
Bunker: Repair: I#0.79, 20/11RP, 42DT, 0/2/0/0/0
Goliath: I#0.11, 6/6RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/1/0/0/0
Mines: I#0.79, 2/2RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/1/0/0/0
Medikit: I#0.01, 1/1RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.8
Vet1(6): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
Vet2(22): 25% more damage resistant
Vet3(67): 30% more health
Vet4(444): 60% more health (108% total)
Vet5(1111): 90% more health (295% total)

Volksgrenadiers: I#10.04, 9/9RP, 102DT, 3/1/1/1/1
Panzerfaust: I#0.18, 4/4RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/0/2/0/0
MP40: I#1.18, 5/5RP, 18DT, 1/0/0/0/0
Medikit: I#0.16, 1/1RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Assault Grenades: I#0.12, 4/4RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): Health regeneration (0.28 hp/s)
Vet2(40): 25% more damage resistant
Vet3(120): 30% more health
Vet4(800): 20% more damage
                  20% more accurate
Vet5(2000): 30% more damage (56% total)
                    Fires two panzerfausts at once
                    Health regeneration (0.56 hp/s total)

Motorcycle: I#1.36, 5/5RP, 78DT, 1/1/1/2/1
Vet Modifier:2
Vet1(5): 20% faster
Vet2(20): +10 sight range
               
Vet3(60): 20% faster (44% total)
                25% harder to hit
Vet4(400): 25% harder to hit (56% total)
                  +20 sight range
Vet5(1000): Upgrade main gun to mg42
                    40% faster (100% total)

Axis HMG: I#3.20, 14/14RP, 78DT, 1/3/1/1/0
Medikit: I#0.13, 1/1RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.3
Vet1(: Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
Vet2(31): +20 sight range
Vet3(92): 30% more damage
                30% more health
Vet4(615): 30% more health (69% total)
                  Sets up twice as fast
Vet5(1538): +20 weapon range
                    30% more health (119% total)

Axis Mortar: I#1.62, 17/17RP, 102DT, 1/4/0/0/0
Medikit: I#0.01, 1/1RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.3
Vet1(: Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
Vet2(31): 20% more damage
Vet3(92): 20% more damage (44% total)
Vet4(615): 40% more damage (102% total)
Vet5(1538): 60% more damage (223% total)

Sniper: I#0.73, 20/20RP, 102DT, 1/2/0/0/0
Medikit: I#0.11, 2/2RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.6
Vet1(6): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
Vet2(25): 33% more suppression resistant
                25% more damage resistant
Vet3(75): 33% more suppression resistant (77% total)
                25% more damage resistant (56% total)
Vet4(500): 60% harder to hit
Vet5(1250): Can move cloaked at normal speed

Pak 38 ATG: I#1.50, 24/24RP, 102DT, 0/5/8/0/0
Medikit: 1/1RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.2
Vet1(: 25% more damage resistant
Vet2(33): 25% more damage
Vet3(100): Can move cloaked at normal speed
Vet4(667): +15 weapon range
                 
Vet5(1667): 60% more damage (100% total)

Grenadiers: I#11.92, 12/12RP, 102DT, 3/1/1/1/1
Grenades: I#0.59, 3/3RP, 18DT, 3Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
MG42 LMG: I#3.28, 8/8RP, 42DT, 2/0/0/0/0
Panzerschreck: I#4.29, 8/8RP, 42DT, 0/0/4/0/0
Medikit: I#0.56, 1/1RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Assault Grenades: I#0.07, 3/3RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.8
Vet1(13): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
Vet2(50): 25% more damage resistant
Vet3(150): 20% more health
                  50% more suppression dealt
Vet4(1000): Triple Health Regeneration (0.84hp/sec)
                    50% more suppression dealt (125% total)
Vet5(2500): 30% more sight range
                    30% more weapon range
                    30% more accurate

Stormtroopers: I#3.65, 15/15RP, 138DT, 3/1/1/1/1
Panzerschreck: I#1.38, 11/11RP, 42DT, 0/0/5/0/0
MP44: I#1.17, 6/6RP, 42DT, 2/0/0/0/0
Bundled Grenades: I#0.31, 3/3RP, 1Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Medikit: I#0.12, 2/2RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Assault Grenades: I#0.12, 3/3RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.7
Vet1(14): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
Vet2(57): 25% more damage resistant
Vet3(171): 30% more health
Vet4(1143): 30% more sight range
                    30% more damage
Vet5(2857): Can move cloaked at normal speed

Officer: I#0.26, 18/18RP, 60DT, 1/3/1/1/0
Medikit: I#0.04, 2/2RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1.7
Vet1(6): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
Vet2(24): 25% more damage resistant
Vet3(71): 25% more health
                25% better supervision
Vet4(471): 60% better supervision (100% total)
Vet5(1176): 4x range of supervision
                    60% better supervision (220% total)

Axis Halftrack: I#0.61, 8/8RP, 78DT, 1/1/1/3/1
Flammenwerfers: I#0.32, 10/10RP, 60DT, -1/-1/-1/1/1
Walking Stuka: I#0.51, 25/25RP, 120DT, -1/9/-1/7/-1
Vet Modifier:0.7
Vet1(14): 25% more damage resistant
Vet2(57): 20% more damage
Vet3(171): 40% more health
Vet4(1143): Flammenwerfer Range +15
                    Walking Stuka Range +30
                    20% harder to hit
Vet5(2857): 100% harder to hit (240% total)

Puma AC: I#0.79, 18/18RP, 180DT, 0/0/1/7/2
50mm Gun: I#0.15, 10/10RP, 18DT, 0/0/3/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.9
Vet1(11): 25% more damage resistant
Vet2(44): 20% more weapon range
                20% more sight
Vet3(133): 20% more damage
Vet4(889): 50% more accurate
Vet5(2222): 80% faster rate of fire

Nebelwerfer: I#0.32, 24/24RP, 138DT, 0/6/0/0/0
Medikit: I#0.01, 1/1RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:0.9
Vet1(11): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/s)
                10s less reload time
Vet2(44): 30% faster movement
                10s less reload time (20s total)
Vet3(133): 10% more damage
                  10s less reload time (30s total)
Vet4(889): 25% harder to damage
                  10s less reload time (40s total)
Vet5(2222): 25% harder to damage (56% total)
                    20% more damage (32% total)
                    10s less reload time (50s total)

Knight's Cross Holders: I#0.90, 18/18RP, 138DT, 5/0/0/0/1
Medikit: I#0.40, 2/2RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Assault Grenades: I#0.08, 3/3RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Panzerfaust: I#0.09, 4/4RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/0/2/0/0, Req: Vet1
Vet Modifier:0.6
Vet1(17): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
                Panzerfaust purchasable
Vet2(67): 25% harder to damage
Vet3(200): 10% more health
                  Unsuppressable
Vet4(1333): Triple Health Regeneration (0.84hp/sec)
                    25% harder to hit
Vet5(3333): Double Damage

StuH 42: I#0.77, 32/32RP, 180DT, 0/4/0/4/6
Mounted MG42: I#0.14, 3/3RP, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet2
Armoured Skirts: I#0.03, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet3
Vet Modifier:1.2
Vet1(: 25% more damage resistant
Vet2(33): 20% more health
                Turret-mounted MG42 purchasable
Vet3(100): 11% harder to penetrate
                  Side skirts purchasable
Vet4(667): Double acceleration
                  Double rotation rate
Vet5(1667): Double range

Stug IV: I#1.19, 25/25RP, 180DT, 0/0/8/2/8
Mounted MG42: I#0.08, 3/3RP, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet2
Armoured Skirts: 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet3
Vet Modifier:1.2
Vet1(: 25% more damage resistant
Vet2(33): 20% more health
                Turret-mounted MG42 Purchasable
Vet3(100): 11% harder to penetrate
                  Side Skirts Purchasable
Vet4(667): 60% more health (92% total)
Vet5(1667): 100% harder to penetrate (122% total)

Panzer IV: I#0.86, 45/45RP, 240DT, 0/0/6/0/10
Mounted MG42: I#0.13, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet2
Armoured Skirts: I#0.01, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet3
Vet Modifier:0.5
Vet1(20): 25% more damage resistant
Vet2(80): 10% more health
                Turret-mounted MG42 purchasable
Vet3(240): 11% harder to penetrate
                  Side skirts purchasable
Vet4(1600): Auto-Repair (1.4hp/sec)
Vet5(4000): 30% more damage
                    30% more speed
                    50% more acceleration

Ostwind Flakpanzer: I#0.68, 36/36RP, 198DT, 0/0/3/6/8
Vet Modifier:0.7
Vet1(14): 25% more damage resistant
Vet2(57): 20% faster rate of fire
Vet3(171): 25% more accurate
Vet4(1143): 50% more accurate (88% total)
Vet5(2857): 100% faster rate of fire (140% total)

Panther: I#0.47, 70/70RP, 282DT, 0/0/12/0/12
Armoured Skirts: I#0.04, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet3
Mounted MG42: I#0.12, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet2
Vet Modifier:0.3
Vet1(33): 25% more damage resistant
Vet2(133): 10% more health
                  Turret-mounted MG42 purchasable
Vet3(400): 11% harder to penetrate
                  Side skirts purchasable
Vet4(2667): 50% more health
Vet5(6667): 40% more penetration
                    40% more damage

Tiger: I#0.34, 80/80RP, 318DT, 0/0/0/0/14
Vet Modifier:0.3
Vet1(33): 11% more damage resistant
                15% faster turret rotation
Vet2(133): 10% more damage
                  15% faster turret rotation (32% total)
Vet3(400): 25% harder to penetrate
                  15% faster turret rotation (52% total)
Vet4(2667): 50% increased rate of fire
                    15% faster turret rotation (75% total)
Vet5(6667): Double damage
                    15% faster turret rotation (101% total)

88mm Flak: I#0.34, 40/40RP, 198DT, 0/12/12/0/0
Medikit: I#0.06, 1/1RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:2.5
Vet1(4): Health Regeneration (0.28hp/sec)
Vet2(16): 25% more damage resistant
Vet3(48): 30% more accurate
Vet4(320): 50% increased rate of fire
                  1 hp/s auto-repair gun
Vet5(800): 75% increased rate of fire (163% total)

King Tiger: I#0.28, 90/90RP, 330DT, 0/0/0/0/20
Vet Modifier:0.3
Vet1(33): 10% more damage resistant
                15% faster turret rotation
Vet2(133): 10% more accurate
                  15% faster turret rotation (32% total)
Vet3(400): 25% harder to penetrate
                  15% faster turret rotation (52% total)
Vet4(2667): 25% increased rate of fire
                    25% increased penetration
                   
Vet5(6667): Double Health
                    Double Damage
                    Moves at half speed
                   

[salan]

the original one was to large, had to cut it in half!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


British Commonwealth

Bren Carrier: I#1.50, 3/3RP, 60DT, 1/1/1/1/0
Auto Repair: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/1/0
Armor Piercing Burst: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 2Uses, 0/0/2/1/0
MMG Carrier: I#2.00, 10/10RP, 22DT, 0/-1/1/2/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Bofors: I#1.40, 21/21RP, 140DT, 0/6/4/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Sappers: I#4.00, 9/9RP, 78DT, 3/3/0/1/1
Expert Engineer: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/2/0/0/0
PIAT: I#3.00, 5/5RP, 42DT, 0/0/3/0/0
Disposal and Detection: I#1.00, 4/4RP, 1Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Tommies: I#15.00, 12/12RP, 120DT, 4/1/1/1/1
Trench: I#4.00, 1/1RP, 30DT, 0/0/0/0/0
Bren LMG: I#4.00, 6/6RP, 42DT, 1/0/2/0/0
Rifle Grenades: I#4.00, 6/6RP, 42DT, 3/0/0/0/0
Casualty Station: I#1.00, 18/18RP, 42DT, 0/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Recon Element: I#5.00, 12/12RP, 120DT, 4/1/1/1/1
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Commando HMG: I#1.50, 12/12RP, 78DT, 1/3/1/1/0
Smoke: I#2.00, 3/3RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Demolitions: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Commando Mortar: I#0.90, 18/18RP, 102DT, 1/4/0/0/0
Smoke: I#2.00, 3/3RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Demolitions: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Commando PIAT: I#1.50, 15/15RP, 102DT, 3/1/4/1/1
Smoke: I#2.00, 3/3RP, 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Grenades: I#2.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Demolitions: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Commandos: I#5.00, 24/24RP, 162DT, 4/1/0/0/0
Smoke: I#6.00, 3/3RP, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Grenades: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Demolitions: I#2.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Lieutenant: I#4.20, 15/15RP, 60DT, 2/1/1/1/0
25lber Artillery Barrage: I#2.00, 120DT, 1Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): S: 4/5/6/12/18
                A: 8/10/12/24/36
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Captain: I#1.50, 21/21RP, 60DT, 1/2/2/1/0
25lber Artillery Barrage: I#1.00, 12/12RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Stuart: I#0.75, 18/18RP, 150DT, 0/0/3/5/2
Canister Rounds: I#2.00, 9/9RP, 60DT, 2Uses, 0/0/0/1/1
Tank commander: I#2.00, 42DT, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Tetrarch: I#0.50, 24/24RP, 150DT, 0/0/4/5/2
Little John Adapter: I#1.00, 8/8RP, 18DT, 0/0/2/1/1
Smoke Shell: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 4Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Cromwell Command Tank: I#1.20, 24/24RP, 138DT, 0/0/0/2/6
Creeping Smoke Barrage: 2Uses, 0/0/0/0/0
Tank Commander: 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Cromwell: I#2.00, 35/35RP, 240DT, 0/0/2/2/7
Tank commander: I#2.00, 2/2RP, 0/0/0/0/0
Flank speed: 0/0/0/0/1
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Churchill: I#0.70, 45/45RP, 240DT, 0/0/6/0/10
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Churchill AVRE: I#0.50, 35/35RP, 240DT, 0/8/0/2/10
Extra Petard Mortars: I#2.00, 15/15RP, 78DT, 0/4/0/0/4
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Churchill Crocodile: I#0.40, 55/55RP, 288DT, 0/0/6/0/12
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

FireFly: I#0.70, 60/60RP, 288DT, 0/0/10/0/12
Tank Commander: 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Priest: I#0.50, 52/52RP, 288DT, 0/10/0/0/10
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Vickers MG Nest: I#0.90, 9/9RP, 78DT, 0/4/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

Mortar Pit: I#0.90, 12/12RP, 102DT, 0/5/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

17lber ATG: I#1.10, 24/24RP, 138DT, 0/10/10/0/0
Armor Piercing Rounds: 18DT, 3Uses, 0/0/3/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage

25lber Howitzer: I#1.40, 48/48RP, 252DT, 0/10/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Panzer Elite

Kettenrad: I#2.00, 6/6RP, 42DT, 1/2/1/1/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Panzer Grenadiers: I#8.00, 6/6RP, 78DT, 3/1/1/1/1
Mine Detection: 0/0/0/0/0
Anti-Tank Grenades: I#3.00, 5/5RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 0/0/2/0/0
Incendiary Grenades: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Increased Squad Size: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 42DT, 3/0/0/0/0
Veteran Sergeant: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 1/0/0/0/0
Gewehr 43: I#3.00, 6/6RP, 18DT, 2/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Luftwaffe Infantry: I#2.00, 8/8RP, 102DT, 2/2/1/1/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Tank Buster Infantry: I#5.00, 18/18RP, 120DT, 3/1/5/1/1
Mine Detection: 0/0/0/0/0
Anti-Tank Grenades: I#3.00, 5/5RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 0/0/2/0/0
Incendiary Grenades: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Increased Squad Size: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 42DT, 3/0/0/0/0
Veteran Sergeant: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 1/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Assault Grenadiers: I#6.00, 18/18RP, 120DT, 4/1/1/1/1
Mine Detection: 0/0/0/0/0
Anti-Tank Grenades: I#3.00, 5/5RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 0/0/2/0/0
Incendiary Grenades: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 2Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Increased Squad Size: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 42DT, 3/0/0/0/0
Veteran Sergeant: I#4.00, 3/3RP, 1/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Fallschimjaeger: I#4.00, 13/13RP, 120DT, 4/0/0/1/1
Mine Detection: 0/0/0/0/0
Anti-Building Incindiary Device: I#2.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 1/0/0/0/0
Panzerfaust: I#2.00, 5/5RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/0/3/0/0
FG42: I#3.00, 6/6RP, 42DT, 3/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Scout Car: I#3.00, 6/6RP, 78DT, 1/1/1/4/0
Logistik Upgrade: I#2.00, 3/3RP, 0/0/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Munitions Halftrack: I#2.00, 12/12RP, 60DT, 0/3/0/3/0
Goliath: I#1.00, 5/5RP, 18DT, 1Uses, 0/2/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

SdKfz 250 Halftrack: I#2.00, 18/18RP, 120DT, 0/7/0/4/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Infantry Halftrack: I#5.00, 12/12RP, 138DT, 1/1/0/5/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Mortar Halftrack: I#3.00, 21/21RP, 162DT, 0/4/0/4/0
Incendiary Mortar Rounds: I#3.00, 6/6RP, 42DT, 4Uses, 0/4/0/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

222 Armored Car: I#4.00, 18/18RP, 162DT, 0/0/0/6/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Marder III Tank Hunter: I#4.00, 35/35RP, 222DT, 0/0/8/2/6
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Light AT Halftrack: I#3.00, 15/15RP, 138DT, 0/0/6/6/0
Tread Breaker: I#2.00, 20/20RP, 60DT, 2Uses, 0/0/2/0/0
Focused Fire: I#2.00, 10/10RP, 18DT, 3Uses, 0/0/0/1/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Berge Tiger: I#2.00, 36/36RP, 198DT, 0/6/0/0/1
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Panzer IV Infantry Support Tank: I#3.00, 32/32RP, 222DT, 0/0/2/4/6
Armoured Skirts: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet3
Mounted MG42: I#2.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet2
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Wirblewind Flak Panzer: I#2.00, 25/25RP, 192DT, 0/0/0/4/6
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Hummel: I#2.00, 50/50RP, 288DT, 0/12/0/0/12
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Hetzer: I#3.00, 38/38RP, 198DT, 0/0/6/2/8
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Panther: I#1.00, 70/70RP, 282DT, 0/0/12/0/12
Armoured Skirts: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet3
Mounted MG42: I#1.00, 3/3RP, 18DT, 0/0/0/0/1, Req: Vet2
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

JagdPanther: I#1.00, 85/85RP, 318DT, 0/0/16/0/16
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

88mm Flak: I#1.00, 40/40RP, 198DT, 0/12/12/0/0
Vet Modifier:1
Vet1(10):
Vet2(40):
Vet3(120):
Vet4(800):
Vet5(2000):

Flakvierling: I#2.00, 26/26RP, 140DT, 0/8/2/0/0

[salan]

when creating something, you aim big, and adjust smaller.  kinda like the current coh beta is doing.

[salan]

Its too easy as it is to gain vet. I say leave vet to be significant, but make it harder to achieve. Then again, if that happens Sideskirts needs to move to vet 2 upgrade =)

I was always of the mind that they should make it harder to KEEP, ie deaths.

[UnLimiTeD]

Only the second half of the post was written in knowledge of AmPms commentary and salans unformated and poorly layouted tables

Dual vet system?

vetsys 1:
gain xp ingame, by fighting, and fast.
Increases fighting skills.
vetsys2:
gain xp slowly, maybe a percentage of vetsys1, persistant over battles, will increase surviveability, like 5 levels raising hitpoints, doge and supression resistance by 5% each, but also increasing deployment time, as you ask for specific veterans that may not be at your disposal directly.
Or maybe choose vet, so those levels only give a small dogde bonus, and may specialize on speed or accuracy.
Or why not increase worth of veteran units a little, with more vet levels of course.
Having highly decorated veterans at your disposal is worth far more that a herd of dumb farmboys, and thus will be jugded differently by high command.

Only way to get over recource limit would be to loose no units.
Fair, I think.

@ AmPm : Because it's for people to be fun, and not for you to be Uber.
They you propose it, we NEED a rating system so people like you can ONLY play against people of same skill level.
For noobs it's incredibily hard to achieve high amounts of vet.

Id say: vet 1 be easy to achieve, vet 2 *watch out, actual idea* is based on games, wins, short, on skill ; and vet 3 is very hard to achieve.
Also vet loss should be limited to 20 of what the unit started the day with, and wins increase vet by 'bout 3 %, with a max of 10, max. twice per day.

Also letting units vet up slowly (2 vet per day for each day not playing more than one game, capped at 20) would increase noobs chances by a whole bit.

And if we go for a system that has a nonlinear progression, make bonus lower on higher levels, so you see the bonus, but it's insignificant.


@ salan: Those values would still favour better players a lot because bad players are not even getting there.
The highest ones having the highest effect, thats ridiculous with a playerbase as small as this.

Something like this would totally fail commercially, having a mod for some elite players is ok is the base programm is not much different in gameplay style, which it IS in this case.

Still want infantry to lose vet when guys die, even if it's only nominal.

But hey, It's not going to happen.


@ Salan again: search your post for Vet1(10): 10% harder to hit
Vet2(40): 10% more accurate
Vet3(120): 10% more damage
Vet4(800): 20% more health
Vet5(2000): 30% harder to damage
Don't match case, nor complete word.
You could significantly shorten it and increase readability in several minutes.

[salan]

@ salan: Those values would still favour better players a lot because bad players are not even getting there.
The highest ones having the highest effect, thats ridiculous with a playerbase as small as this.

Something like this would totally fail commercially, having a mod for some elite players is ok is the base programm is not much different in gameplay style, which it IS in this case.

Still want infantry to lose vet when guys die, even if it's only nominal.

But hey, It's not going to happen.

as I said though, those were the FIRST itteration of vet levels anyone saw, and they have 100% most definitely changed since then.  the last vet changes saw a rather significant decrease in what vet offered over levels before.

Did you know that at vet 3, which was almost half as much xp to get to as it is currently (in the 80s for riflemen instead of in the 150's) you would gain a 50% dmg increase, the german vets were just as crazy, but on the survival side instead of killing side. 

what the developers learnt, to my knowledge, was that they needed to lesson the effect of vet, and make it longer to achieve.

What we see now is simply that no matter how long it takes to get the vet, people WILL get it. The thought that if you make it 300xp for vet 3, by a few weeks in, people WILL be there, as they will dedicate that outcome as their gaming experience over trying to win.

I have always been a proponent of lesser bonus's from vet, and making it more skill based.  the most balanced games this war has is when everyone is at 0cp/0rb/0vet   .... for a reason.

[AmPmAllied]

The GAME SHOULD FAVOR BETTER PLAYERS, thats the whole point of a competitive game. If you are good you do well, gain vet, get wins. If you suck, you don't win, you lose your vet, and you lose.

This is what is wrong with the world, people think they DESERVE an equal chance even if they are not as good. Everyone has the same tools available to them, the same starting armies, units, CPs, RBs. Some people play better naturally, some people bother to learn about the game to give them an edge. Then you have the people with no talent, and no will to actually learn and get better that want everything just handed to them.

[Draygon]

/agree with the second part of AmPms statement.

I would love to see those Vet tables make it into EiR.  Yes it does promote better players/better playing, but as its been said, that is what competitive gaming is about.

Some of those are scary...Vet3 Rangers 100% more HPs...nuts.


Lets just hope the Devs return to work on this.

[salan]

very true.  but you mean that the player who is better should get better bonus's then the one who isn't?

I personally would rather beat a weaker player on skill alone rather then the fact that you wiped his vet off the table the game before me and now i have a gigantic advantage that ultimately i never really needed in the first place.

ampm, you and myself have played this mod forever, and I dare say we were in the top of the skill and competitiveness in the community.  I've fought with you and against you for almost a year, and usually take the opposite sides of an argument then you because for a long time, we were the only truly vocal members of this community; other then commandernewbie.  that said, and with everything i have learnt from this mod and my experiences here.   the game play in itself is the most fun when one side does not in fact have an artificial leverage over the other.

if it was left to force composition, player call in choices, and micro to decide who wins the games, the exhileration of that win is that much greater then simply dropping in a fully vetted cp/rbd company and rolling over people with minor micro needed to achieve the same thing.

I believe in the end we are arguing the same point, just different iterations.

[Thtb]

EiR allows more skilled players to beat those with more vet. /cp and RB.
See i late-joined the war, very late actually. My states are 6 wins to 1 lose.

[salan]

EiR allows more skilled players to beat those with more vet. /cp and RB.
See i late-joined the war, very late actually. My states are 6 wins to 1 lose.

I am the same at 6-2 and i only joined last week. 

Stumpsters sig was correct "vet doesn't fix stupid".

but what happens when you have a GOOD player with the vet over a bad player with none?