The European Union...

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[lompocus]

...IS IMPOSSIBLE TO FIGURE OUT!

I mean we all know its basic reasons for existence...I think.

Now we all know about that 500 page long (or 300 pages, still too long) constitution which Ireland (thankfully) blocked. No doubt its a great deal more complicated than our 1-page Constitution (OK, one really big page...lets say 10 page long). Granted, said EU constitution includes all rights, guidelines, and procedures for everything across a lot of totally unique mini-countries, alongside who knows what else.

I just happened to want to read this (for the hell of knowing exactly how the hell you can expand anything to 500 pages and expect everyone in your nation-equivilant to read, study, understand, and apply everything in it before they die). First thing I typed into google is European Union. Type that in and click on the first link. The whole damn site from start to deepest link in is complicated to no end. It contains a ton of useful information, but going through it = brain lock after 10 seconds.

The United States site (i think): http://www.usa.gov/

Whole site is very linear, very simplified, and very easy to search for whatever the hell you'd want to know.

The Lisbon Treaty:
The Constitution: http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/blog/Constitution_Pg1of4_AC.jpg

[stumpster]

In before America bashing.

[lompocus]

In before America bashing.

*sigh*...

[Righteous Path #2]

America bashing? In MY Internets?

[Unkn0wn]

Get lost, no one should bother discussing this here. We've all seen what you and others are capable of .

P.S
http://europa.eu/

Site is just as easy to use.
You must have a different, much more complex, website because you're from the US.

[Thtb]

See, i have to agree.

The new Law´s and Guidelines all propatly have been made with the best for evryone in minde, however in many many single situations they do quite some harm to single people or familys.
Some gain great advantages since they do something that is being supported by the Law´s and gain a lot of money. Others now have to make 3x savty courses and get 7x new firealarms, smoke detectors and childe-proof things witch costs them a lot.

The EU is to Democratic to say so. To much Paper, no connection to the real situation´s, Money is getting wasted on the one side and sucked out of those how dont have it on the other side.

---------America bash start;
At least we dont have some self decleared president how didnt even win the last votes, but is still leader of the state´s and does whatever the fuck his dady and thatfatguy want ....

[PADDYCDO]

I dont remeber voting for a European President, European commissioners or the EU constitution/Lisbon Treaty but hey thats democracy at least the tyanks get rid of Bush.
Apologies Rant over.

[Unkn0wn]

1. We don't have a European president.
2.  You can vote for the EU commissioners if you want, many people just don't give a shit or don't know and don't vote.
3. The lisbon treaty gets voted over in the parliament by the government YOU elected.
If they had the people vote of 27 nations, they'd never get anything done, also your government should be intelligent enough to make decisions for its people, that's what they do on a national level, I don't see why it should be different on an international level.

[Smithy17]

However as has been said before, the EU is not the first thing on most people's mind when voting for governments. Anyway take the case of Irelnad where all major political parties supported the treaty, how are the Irish supposed to show oppostion to the treaty in a national election without voting in a narrow minded one policy anti EU party which will be useless for actually doing anything else the Irish want.

[Unkn0wn]

They didn't vote against the consitution because they hardly knew what was in it.
They voted against it as a sign of protest against their government and based on all kind of bullshit arguements that the opposition threw at them. (Forced legalisation of gay marriages, abortion, etc)

[Smithy17]

Well they should have known what was in it, thats just a complete failing on the EU's part and if ir wasn't so complicated maybe people would have been able to vote on what they actually thought. Obviously if they are annoyed with their government they don't trust them enough to want to ratify the lisbon treaty.

[Unkn0wn]

The government did their best to try and tell them what was in it, but what's the use when most people are against the government ('government is pro, we'll be contra' attitude). It's not the EU's job, it's the local government's job.

That and the people opposing the treaty kept spreading bullshit about it, were pretty large in numbers and had the needed funds... you'd get confused for less.

[Smithy17]

But you keep saying that it should be a decision by the government as the representatives. As the Irish government took wrong decisions in other areas, the people obviously decided that they didn't want them making big decisions like this and so voted against them. Also as I said before the major political parties where all for the EU treaty, how are people supposed to show they don't want the treaty? Its like every political party deciding to put outlawing bicycles into their manifestos, whatever people vote bicycles are going to be banned.

[Rahx]

1. We don't have a European president.

We'll get an EU president at the end of 2008   

[BradAnderson]

omg why do people make threads about politics then try and argue with Unkn0wn its a lost battle.

[PADDYCDO]

I understand what you mean by the government being "inteligent enough to make decisions for the people" but when that self said government renages on its election promises as labour did on its manifesto pledge to allow a referendum on the "Euro treaty" it tends to upset people.  It doesnt help much when the Eu change the title of the same document to Lisbon treaty after a few referendum defeats and serve it up again to the people just to get it through.

[Unkn0wn]

If they'd listen to the people, the EU wouldn't even exist.

[Rahx]

If they'd listen to the people, the EU wouldn't even exist.

Hmm, true

[PADDYCDO]

1.Commissioners are appointed by the member-states not elected. ie not accountable to the people but instead whichever political party appointed them.

2.President of the European Commission : José Manuel Barroso: The President is first nominated by the European Council; that nominee is then officially elected by the European Parliament. that wont be me then

3.MEPs elected by the people of the member state in the uk we have 78.  Germany has 99 and france has 78

4. EU accounts : The auditors for the EU have refused to sign off the bloc's financial accounts - for the 13th year in a row Thats my money

5. So know im not to happy about further intregration

[Unkn0wn]

http://consilium.europa.eu/cms3_fo/showPage.asp?id=1296&lang=en

I found it to be readible.
Sure, it's complex, but I dare you to find any constitutional/government issued document that isn't.
Ever tried looking into your governmen's consitution? Ever studied lawschool material? Yeah, I rest my case.