Anti-Spore.com - People are so gullible and stupid.

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[Unkn0wn]

Teaching creationism in school is fine, but it needs to be taught as a "story", something kids can draw lessons from. The beauty of religion is that all the stories hold a lesson within them, if you take them literally however you are only making a fool out of yourself and the religion. Jesus did not really walk on water, he did not turn water into wine, etc...
I'm absolutely certain the authors of the bible/kora/thora never intended anyone to take the story literally.

It's ironic though, all muslim fundamentalists are regarded to as criminals with no respect for women, human rights and whatnot... christrian fundamentalisits however are good to have because they bring variety and people are 'allowed to make a choice'. I believe in religion as a personal thing, something you practice at home without any higher authority dictating you what to do, basically an enlightened protestant religion. When this religion however is, like in the US, actually influencing politics than there is a severe problem.

Look of the history of 'public' christianity, there was hardly much good to tell about that. This is why intelligent liberal thinkers in the 19-20th century realised the need for secularisation, the divide between religion and state. When a religion has a sense of power, it rarely produces much good as it gets abused by the individuals in charge to achieve certain benefits. And for this, they went and misinterpreted the bible by taking everything literally and giving it their own interpretation.

It's unfortunate they have this power in the US, just look at what it's doing to personal freedom, the government is deciding wether you may or may not perform abortion, perform euthanasia, study evolution, etc. They hold the freedom of speech for themselves in one hand and crush the freedom of choice for others in the other hand.

[Killer344]

This is wierd.... 2 pages and it hasn´t turned into a flame war yet...

[UnLimiTeD]

I'm seriously concerned about this community.
Maybe if we derail it...
Hmmm....
Your all idiots because you don't admit to my views!
Even if I didn't tell my views to anybody so far.

Unknown, nice speech btw.
Religion was always something to make societies work, and once they work themselfs, it's concurence.
But Religion seems to give sense to some people, while society just ensures survival.
Sort of.

[Killer343]

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=vPKvwd9vJZY

ROFL

[UnLimiTeD]

old...

[SkunkerTLS]

Agnostic ftw?

Yep - God without all of the speculation. You take what you're pretty damn sure is a common thread in all religions, and just cut out the rest of the meat.

And yes, unknown, absolutely - the Bible has a lot of great parables in it that teach valuable life lessons and morals, that is what I think should really be taken out of religion.

Ultimate abuse of religion: Pope Urban II and the crusades.

[salan]

This is wierd.... 2 pages and it hasn´t turned into a flame war yet...

its actually a really good conversation!

[Smithy17]

Ultimate abuse of religion: Pope Urban II and the crusades.

I'm not sure it was abuse (although I don't know to much about this), what did he have to gain from the crusades that wasn't to do with religion? It is a bad side of religion though certainly.

[Thtb]

Power.

Crusades coud be used to get ride of important people or to weaken a country.

[GMGriffith]

Teaching creationism in school is fine, but it needs to be taught as a "story", something kids can draw lessons from. The beauty of religion is that all the stories hold a lesson within them, if you take them literally however you are only making a fool out of yourself and the religion. Jesus did not really walk on water, he did not turn water into wine, etc...
I'm absolutely certain the authors of the bible/kora/thora never intended anyone to take the story literally.

Er i have to say i disagree with this one about the authors - the whole basis of Christianity is that Christ was both man and God, who came to earth, died and rose on the third day, winning a victory over death/sin and acting as a sacrifice so that others could be redeemed and saved. To say that the Bible was not meant to be taken literally in that case just doesn't work. Christ didn't leave that option - its like saying Christ was a good person but he wasn't God. He didn't leave that as a choice. Jesus said He was God - so that only leaves you three choices; Either He was lying, knew He wasn't God but said He was - and then also a fool for dying for that lie. He was a lunatic - believing He was God but not. Or He was telling the truth.

Anyhow I agree with a lot of whats been said about Religion here... and if i wasn't leavin i'd elaborate - if you want me to tell me =P

[Unkn0wn]

the whole basis of Christianity is that Christ was both man and God, who came to earth, died and rose on the third day, winning a victory over death/sin and acting as a sacrifice so that others could be redeemed and saved.

And you take this seriously? You really believe christ had divine powers? There is no such thing as a man being god or having divine powers. And yes, if this means that if jesus seriously meant he was the son of god than he was lying. I however believe that taking the bible this literally shows a severe lack of insight. (Jesus was not superman and did not have supernatural powers, despite what people say)

Also I don't even think he ever said he was god, jesus is the son of god... We're all the sons of god. And some philosophers would even go to say that we're all a 'little god' as we all have ultimate control over our own lives and our environment.

I'm sorry to say but if you take religion seriously you're bound to end up realising all of it is one big lie.
Christian fundamentalists will put their heads in the sand and deny this untill the bitter end, regardless of how much scientific proof there is. If you however ever reach a certain enlightened state of mind, you'll realise that the underlying stories all hold a universal truth about life, mankind and the our existence in general.

This is the vision I was taught at high school and only came to fully understand and appreciate at a later time, and I have adapted this vision. I really think this is the only way people should look at religion, and if more people had realised this as well, we would've been saved from various types of abuse throughout centuries.

[UnLimiTeD]

I think there is a movie to it, Zeitgeist, explaining an other rational viewpoint very well.
And Unknown, the point of tolerance is to accept peoples believes, even if you think they are retarded, well, then bask in it.
If Griffith believes that, I would have to disagree with him, but I leave it at that.
And we wont go any further now, as it becomes a moderation issue otherwise.

[Unkn0wn]

I never even implied that I do not respect his beliefs, people pull the 'freedom of speech' card way too often if you ask me. The moment you try to discuss someone's beliefs you have to back off or you'll get sued for being racist/intolerant and whatnot.

It's perfectly fine to belief in something, it is however not fine if that belief is imposed on others or starts to affect others. Which is sadly what fundamentalism in every religion does. I've mentioned the stereotypes before, muslim fundamentalists are all terrorists and can go to hell, but when someone criticises christian fundamentalism we have to respect their freedom of choice, their beliefs and whatnot. This is pure hypocrisy.

If you want to keep believing what you believe, that's fine. I, or anybody else for that matter, should never be able to force you to let go of your beliefs. But hopefully I'll at least make you think about it for just one second. Who knows, maybe jesus did have supernatural powers and I'm wrong.

[UnLimiTeD]

Supernatural is a big word. 

[Unkn0wn]

So you'd say walking over water, turning water into wine, making blind people see, etc etc etc is not supernatural?
2000 Years after Christ we're still not able to do most of this with modern technology .

Anyway, I'm a liberal thinker in case you haven't noticed. The joys of being born in a liberal europe, and I know a lot of americans think liberals are pussies and whatnot :p.

[GMGriffith]

I'm just pointing out that what your saying Christians believe is wrong - Christ says specifically He IS the son of God/God, its the whole Trinity thing - Christ is both God and man, Son of God, and God. Specifically you can look at John 1:1 "1 In  the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." He also states it John 8:58, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" specifically I AM Yawyeh, God as He identifies himself in the Old Testament. And saying that if a Christian believes that the Bible speaking literally they have a severe lack of insight and state that "I'm sorry to say but if you take religion seriously you're bound to end up realising all of it is one big lie. " your making an opinion statement and are effectively shitting on my beliefs as it were. I would appreciate it if you didn't presume to know what the authors intended in writing the Bible or what Christians believe because what your saying has been just kind of wrong.

Edit - grammar fixes =P

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

So you'd say walking over water, turning water into wine, making blind people see, etc etc etc is not supernatural?
2000 Years after Christ we're still not able to do most of this with modern technology .

Anyway, I'm a liberal thinker in case you haven't noticed. The joys of being born in a liberal europe, and I know a lot of americans think liberals are pussies and whatnot :p.

Unknown gets +3 points for thinking liberally. I hate conservatives.

[UnLimiTeD]

What unknown said is basically right, but how he sais it..
gonna give a point to griffith

[Unkn0wn]

Wow hold on there, I'd consider myself christian just as well. I'm sorry to say but there's a difference between a fundamentalist christian and a regular christian. And surely you know that people who take the holy word literally are generally regardes to as fundamentalists.

Fundamentalism refers to a "deep and totalistic commitment" to a belief in, and strict adherence to a set of basic principles (often religious in nature), a reaction to perceived doctrinal compromises with modern social and political life

Richard Dawkins used the term to characterize religious advocates as clinging to a stubborn, entrenched position that defies reasoned argument or contradictory evidence

I.e If you completely deny evolution and claim that creationism is the only truth than yes you are a fundamentalist.

There's nothing wrong with being a fundamentalists, contrary to popular belief, it's a way of living just like any other. I completely respect that, before you want to pull the intolerence card.. But claiming that the fundamentalist beliefs are the beliefs of every other individual practicing a religion is a serious mistake. Fundamentalists are usually a vast minority within a religion. I also realise that to some fundamentalists, the other 'believers' are seen as lost sheep, no longer following the true path.

that if a Christian believes that the Bible speaking literally they have a severe lack of insight and state that "I'm sorry to say but if you take religion seriously you're bound to end up realising all of it is one big lie. " you making an opinion statement and effectively shitting on my beliefs as it were.

It's been proven that men evolved from apes, thus the literal story behind creationism is unfortunately a 'lie' (I wouldn't call it like that because it implies that they purposely deceived you when they didn't... I personally don't think they ever intended on people to take it 100% literally or at least realised the alternatives). The underlying story however is not, and THIS is what is the most important in my opinion.


I'm sorry if I come across harsh but with english being my third language I don't think I have any way of making it come across nicer, I'm doing the best I can not to insult you in any way, believe me. I truly do respect your beliefs but that shouldn't take away my right to 'think differently' and express that either. You can not convince people who have different beliefs, it would be stupid to even attempt that, however it's important we realise our belief is not necessarily the true belief and the only belief.

[Unkn0wn]

Ah well, you know, discussing religion and beliefs on the internet is not really the best place for it :p.
I wonder why I always get caught up in these!

I'll step down and I'm going to bed!
Lock if needed.

P.s edited a section about the 'lie', needed to be cleared up. It's not really in place calling the literal stories a lie.
They're not lies, they're just not true IMO. Big difference there.