Iraq War - Legal or Illegal

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Unkn0wn]

I'll agree, there's been a slight improvement in the situation in Iraq the last year or so, but you know as well as I do that every now and then the violence reaches epic proportions again... In addition, there's been an increase in terrorist funding, training camps and whatnot. All the work US intelligence agencies have been doing to fight terrorism was ultimately nullified by going into the middle east and given the people of the middle east the middle finger. The actual problem is not being solved, you've given the terrorists even more reason to hate you than they already had in the first place. The only way out of this is by returning to a semi-isolationist status. Right now the U.S is just trying to swim upstream and we all know how that one ends up.

Actually, I never said that was the main reason it was done Unknown, I said it was a good reason though. The reason we don't do it in other counties is because there is going to be a lot of whining from the EU

The U.S doesn't give a shit about what the EU thinks, never have and never will untill the point where US political and economic power ultimately sinks and makes them 'just another' country instead of the superpower it was yesterday. Saying that it doesn't act because the EU would whine is a non-arguement. The EU will never take economic/military/political measures against the U.S regardless of its actions, at least not in this century, it's still too much of a washington puppet in the end.

[DrayTest]

wait...let me get this strait...

You HONESTLY think that the us will at some point drop off the map as a "super power."?


Might want to go back to your dealer, I think you got some bad stuff.

[Thtb]

It wont fall off, but it will become less important. The Asian area is the fastest growing and will soon reach a place as a mayor military power.... Especially china scares me a bit...

[salan]

they'll end up having to fight a war over it I'm sure.

[Unkn0wn]

Yup, they will. Why? Because it's a natural thing in history. Don't be ignorant. The U.S has risen to be a worldpower in the 20th & 21th century. Did you know austria was a world power in the 19th century? France & GB used to be world powers as well.

Russia has been the only consistent world power in the last 3-4 centuries or so and even they will eventually vanish in the light of China/India and the other countries. I recommend you read some books on it, it's a general consensus amongst international political scientists.

The U.S has been losing its economic power, it has lost a lot of its political power. If the american government doesn't act soon, in the next few decades only their military power remains. But a single 'power' is never sufficient for a country to remain a 'superpower'. Without the economy and international support/understanding the military power is ultimately null. Usually the military power is the last power remaining, history has shown that the reign of superpowers usually gets ended by a significant war. Some even say the Iraq war indicated the official closing of a unilaterial world ran by Washington.

This doesn't mean the U.S will become a third world country, not at all. There will however come a time when the U.S can no longer decide the fate of others or influence international politics in any major way.

[Unkn0wn]

P.S despite my political views don't label me as a U.S hater please. I really love the U.S, it's one of the countries I'd love to live in later. I'm a big fan of the culture, the people, the military but ultimately this shouldn't stop you from criticising their government imo. I can ultimately criticise the EU just as much.

[Smithy17]

wait...let me get this strait...

You HONESTLY think that the us will at some point drop off the map as a "super power."?


Might want to go back to your dealer, I think you got some bad stuff.

Rome used to be quite powerful

[Prydefalcn]

It's a bad habit to take in the Middle-East as a whole rather than addressing each country within the region as an independent power.  These days, there's relatively little cooperation between the countries.  Occupying Iraq does not equate to occupying a state within the USA  Somehow I doubt the average Iranian feels much measure of kinship with the Iraqi people.

Also, regarding the USA as a superpower.  Political power waxes and wanes in cycles.  This has been the trend thus far, but frankly it is very difficult to project any semblence of an accurate prediction as to whether or not the USA is poised to fall out of favor as the world's remaining superpower.  If that occurs, we will likely find ourselves again in a multipolar world, the most unstable and violate of our futures.  The same kind of atmosphere that breeds world wars.  Under that pretense, it's more likely that if the USA finds itself in trouble as a global hegemony, other powers will bail them out (economically, most of the major powers are already tied to the USA's future).  I'm really not seeing anyone else wanting to fill the gap.

Transition of power from a unipolar system is usually violent, but I'm very wary of applying previous trends to current happenings.  After all, everyone expected the Cold War to end in... actual war.

Just piping in.  I don't really have an opinion on the matter of legality, international politics are almost never motivated by morality and it's most likely naive to assume that they should be.

[Sypher21]

The question is, after what, over four years of continuous slaughter, has America found their weapons of mass destruction?

Nope. So what exactly are they doing in Iraq, other than sucking the land dry of oil for themselves, all the while replacing it with rivers of human blood?

[Prydefalcn]

The question is, after what, over four years of continuous slaughter, has America found their weapons of mass destruction?

Nope. So what exactly are they doing in Iraq, other than sucking the land dry of oil for themselves, all the while replacing it with rivers of human blood?

Cute rhetoric.  It made me giggle.   

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

[AmpmX]

Oh god, the huge casualties....probably less than people that die of car accidents in the same time frame.

Anyway, the thing is, most people don't like war, and for good reason. Unfortunately, sometimes it is necessary. So far since we have gone in there hasn't been any government sanctioned ethnic cleansing going on, and the reason we stay there is to prevent the nations surrounding Iraq from devouring it in the power vacuum that would be there if we left. Iran for instance has had there eye on it for a while now.

Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

[Unkn0wn]

Actually, multiple studies in regards to U.S popularity have shown that the U.S is evenly hated all across the middle-east. The big exception here is Israel but that's no surprise. Even pakistan, a country generally aligned with the U.S has a lot of anti-US attitudes floating around. The recent U.S attacks on terrorists on Pakistani soil are only making things worse in all honesty.

Surprisingly, the people in the Middle east do distinguish the U.S and the E.U and not just hate 'all western countries' equally. The E.U was found to be the most 'popular' 'large bloc/superpower'. China & Russia also scored better than the U.S mind you.

It's because of this study that I took the Middle-east as a whole. Let's not forget that if it wasn't for 18th - 19th century Western intervention (mainly GB/France) the Arabic world would've been unified today. (Just like China was broken up for many decades but ultimately got international respect, this thanks to the U.S)


I admire America's preWW2 international politics, they've done so many great things on the international scene back then.


I'd also like to add that we already live in a multipolar world, with China and India rising, the EU surpassing the US' economy and Russia once again arming itself to become the 'great' military power it once was I don't think anyone can honestly believe that the US is the only superpower in the world. It's economy and political power have taken far too much of a dent for that.

[Prydefalcn]

We don't live in a multipolar world.  Yet.

Trust me

<EDIT>  Specifically, I'd label them as regional/world powers, not superpowers.  And for all the talk about China, Russia, or the EU etc. rising up and challenging the US's unrivaled interventionalism around the world (it is, of course, not just about military interventionalism, that's only a small piece of the pie where direct force is applied.  More often its the massive money trail that the US leaves across the world, foreign aid and investment) they're still centered within local boundaries.  Hell, the chinese economy relies almost exclusively on being subordinate to US consumers

P.S despite my political views don't label me as a U.S hater please.

I believe you 

[Killer344]

Alright. So if the US is such an awesome world police and wants to rid the world of evil dictators.
How come no action has been taken against these dictators?
- H. Chavez
- Kim Jong Il
- Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
- Robert Mugabe
- Fidel/Raul Castro

The list goes on, but these are the most commonly known.
(You could even argue that China/Russia are ultimately authoritarian states)

LMAO, he´s just a douchebag, have you heard all he has said?

I can literally translate it for you  .

[Champion]

As a law student at Stetson College of Law in Gulfport, Fl, I think i know more about the law than most...

1st. Sadaam violated 17 UN resolutions, if thats not enough to constitute pre-emption than what is? (notice that you can pre-empt if they someone else attacks first)

2nd. Sadaam had WMD, he used them on the Kurds (his own people) and on Iran during the Iraq-Iran war in the 1980's. For those who dont believe he had them, where did they go? During the 17 violations could he maybe have moved them to say Syria?

3rd. Code Pink and "Pinky" are Far-left anti-war organizations who protest any act of war, so the Bias is undenyable

Lastly, as I have class in 5 min... O'Rielly is a registered Independent, who has conservative values... I DVR his show, I have heard him repeatedly bash both party's Maybe before people judge him as a right-wing nut, you should watch his show with an open mind.

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

Lastly, as I have class in 5 min... O'Rielly is a registered Independent, who has conservative values... I DVR his show, I have heard him repeatedly bash both party's Maybe before people judge him as a right-wing nut, you should watch his show with an open mind.[/b]

Well I lost respect for what you had posted when I read that lol. Not wanting to veer off-topic but Bill O'Reily is a total asshole. He does not let anyone speak on his show, he is a know it all and even when he is wrong it isn't his fault it was a "mis-understanding" or "YOU didn't understand what I said". I've seen his shows and he is a total prick to everyone that he invites, and god forbid he actually comes up with relevant questions that one can actually answer with out looking evil no matter what you say. His show is nothing political he is just an asshole that gets paid a lot of money to do what he does best, being an asshole.

Anyway on the whole "everyone hates the US topic thing" I would hate the US too if I was in their shoes. But then again this is very broad. Many radicalist hate the US as a whole and then there is the group that hates the dumb asses that run the government. And the US economy is not "falling" in the sense that we are in a depression we are just falling from the "high life" that Bill Clinton had us in. We had a surplus of money then the Bush administration came in and decided to give that money away for reasons I don't know.

As for the legality of the Iraq War is was neither legal or illegal, it was stupid. Why did we go to the Middle East? To fight radical extremists and to kick the shit out of AL-Qadea and Bin Laden. What happened, we found out it was going to be hard to find Bin Laden so lets find something else *National Security, CIA, and Bush and his Fisher Price Globe* said IRAQ! Granted Saddam was a horrible person but we diverted too much attention from Bin Laden and the PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TERRORIST ATTACKS and decided to invade Iraq to "kill time" I guess. And don't anyone say we went there for oil because last time I checked gasoline isn't any cheaper.

What the bush government doesn't see is that staying in Iraq will ultimately NEVER stabilize the conflict. As long as Americans remain in Iraq, insurgents will keep coming and violence will continue being fueled for years to come. Remove the Americans and you remove half of the problem. The people of the middle east generally hate the US, just like you'd hate them if they'd be occupying a state of the U.S.

A snippet from Unkn0wns post last page: The problem is what happens if we leave Iraq? A dictator (probably an Islamic extremist) takes over, probably welcomes terrorists and uses Iraq as a staging area for terrorist training. This is proven in the Russia/Afghanistan conflict where Russia fought left and the Taliban took over ran by! Bin Laden who had recieved funding from! America and who is president during both of these? A person with the last name Bush. What does it take to get impeached now a days?

There will however come a time when the U.S can no longer decide the fate of others or influence international politics in any major way.

Maybe then people will leave us the fuck alone. There is actually a kid in my High school (17yrs old) who is already planning to run for President in 2028 and he would seriously just bring us back to isolationism and say "fuck you" to stuff that doesn't concern us, the island in the pacific or the growth off Canada (if you live in Alaska I'm sorry I do like that state). I mean can you imagine if we just leave Iraq take all of our toys and then sit quietly in America and let everyone do there own thing. Would this bring peace, love, and legalization of pot or WWIII?

[Wraith547]

Can't stand O' Reilly, but my true hatred is reserved for shaun hannity.

Honestly if all the skills required to host a debate show is to yell louder than the other person and then hang up on them........

If you want to listen to a real whack job start with Michael Savage. Even if you disagree with 99% of what he says(like myself), he is entertaining as hell to listen too. I really appreciate talk show hosts that have a different way of looking at things.

Also I give mad respect to Rush Limbaugh, because once again I disagree with most of his views, but the man can straight up out think just about everyone who calls in.

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

Except Bill doesn't out think, he just says things over and over.

[Wraith547]

Except Bill doesn't out think, he just says things over and over.

At what point did I say he did?

[BoDyBaG2224TLS]

You didn't I was just saying that is what separates him from good arguers wasn't directed at you.