Expensive Volks

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[meversbergii]

Please, stop the realismen arguments already ^^

Good post though meversbergii, historical things are however not part of Balance

Also "You still see volks" is no real argument. You still need (even if only a small) amount of them for various purposes.

Thanks.  I was just trying to point out that even in balance we shouldn't lose scope of what the unit is.  Would G43's be a bad idea, though?

M.

[Prydefalcn]

Would G43's be a bad idea, though?

M.

One of the design philosophies of EIR is to try and maintain the vCoH play dynamic, which includes not messing with unit stats and upgrades etc, balancing through pricing.

[salan]

Would G43's be a bad idea, though?

M.

One of the design philosophies of EIR is to try and maintain the vCoH play dynamic, which includes not messing with unit stats and upgrades etc, balancing through pricing.

availability, and or dynamic pricing.. awww how i dream of thee..

[NightRain]

Ello!

Hmm Volksgrenadiers the shittiest infantry what Wehrmacht (ok Whole Nazi Germany) Had that time.
No they weren't soldiers they were Militia as pointed out earlier several times.
Alright lets dig into this problem.

In VCoH Volks are somewhat "Starting infantry" although I see no point adding whole bloody infantry unit into the whole game. Anyway Volks are more of a guardmen dealing with Anti Aircraft weaponry (seen in US Campaign 2 Intro) and so on. They were old men or young children in age of 12-14-15-16 whatever age up to 80 too! Now 80 years old pap using a Kar 89 makes me smirk.

Volks in general (in game of course) are primary used as cannon fodder. Use these infantry in buildings without any upgrades they do actually quite decent! In VCoH I beated 1 British Recon unit and 1 non-upgraded unit in long range combat. 1 Volk in a house. 1 Recon in house. 1 Volk behind a car wreck one behind a wooden wall.
Anyway that is only memorizing.

In-game Volks are useful for recrewing things. Perhaps you want to be an asshole and steal all your lovely Allies players support weapons? That'd be fun when he returns to recrew them he finds them all gone and in your use! Imaginate his face when you get a free useful heavy caliber Browning? And shooting at his rifleman spam! Or stealing his mortar to harash his Mgs in buildings instead. Comical.

As infantry these guys are not like American G1s. Remember we are comparing American TRAINED INFANTRY versus Soldiers who yells to each others "If its clicking like that! You have to reload!" Alright, now this infantry is useful when you give them Hitler Saws (MP40s) This makes Volks like a assault unit but bleh they will die if you go alone vs 3 Rifleman squads. You got to have Grenadiers behind volks all the time.

For the price thing. Volks die quickly vs any threat. Their Panzerfaust doesn't slow enemy tank down so that they can runaway but if you get 2-4 lucky hits in a Croc's butt you might score a kill but if croc escapes behind a wall when you try to aim PF. Ups "Panzerfaust. Requires: Uses" Its wasted and nothing to replace it. "Hans shoot the Panzerfaust!"  "Its off range I think I broke it Karl"

Price of 195 is idiotic for volkgrenadier price but if it went too low they'd be spammed (Ehh maybe as spammed as the picture in my Signature?)
Anyway. 185 for manpower price sounds like a bullseye. This infantry units dies in close combat without a upgrade. Their vet is same like a toilet paper when you use a toilet. Use them to recrew stuff or guard some non important objects (houses, rear vs Paratroopers, it annoys AB player so much that he will yell in vent "VOLKS! EVERYWHERE ARGAHHH!" and then he continues his battle with Death from above)

185 for Volks is a nice idea. 190 is overrated. 180 is too less it leaves so much candy money to buy something cool. 170 No Men need a woman to come to world and women cost resources (IRL experience everyone has it I assume?)
Dropping the price by 10. Ain't a bad change when we talk about a group who yells "If I knew how much walking they do I'd have joined the navy" "Have you taken any training?". Hmrhm...

I guess that finishes something?
I know ally lovers are afraid of Volk spam to counter their Rifleman spam, heres a newsflash for all allie lovers!
Do not fear Volks they are decent in long range (always older people hunts don't ya agree?) but in close range you simply force them to retreat. Besides upgrades for volks are expensive, I'd give MP44s to a Stormtrooper unit rather than give both PF and MP40s for Volks.

Yeah I use volks their cool when they have MP40s but die so damn easily to a Bar unit despite the range, bad micro? How is it bad micro when you get your troops in close range? I dunno

End <3

[UnLimiTeD]

1.I found some realism! Anyone? Come on, it's free!

Damn, no one want's it here.

2. You tank about Volkssturm, Volksgrenadiers were still troops of reasonable fighting age, likely 16+, and contained battletired crack troops and reasonable officers aswell.

3.We quite know the usage of volks, the main argument here is they have one man less than riflemen, even though having superior weapons.

Actually you bring reasonable points, but nothing new, just wanted to tell you.

[Thtb]

QFT Nightrain.

[NightRain]

Ty Thtb :p
Back to topic lads

I think audience thinks that volks really are expensive compared to their actual use

3.We quite know the usage of volks, the main argument here is they have one man less than riflemen, even though having superior weapons.

No we are complaining why they are so expensive

[CommanderNewbie]

I guess that finishes something?
I know ally lovers are afraid of Volk spam to counter their Rifleman spam, heres a newsflash for all allie lovers!
Do not fear Volks they are decent in long range (always older people hunts don't ya agree?) but in close range you simply force them to retreat. Besides upgrades for volks are expensive, I'd give MP44s to a Stormtrooper unit rather than give both PF and MP40s for Volks.

Welcome to the discussion NightRain, there may be a few inperceptions in your argument; the one that jumped out at me most was the idea that volks upgrades are expensive.  They're 50 munitions each, that's only 5 more than an allied grenade and you can get almost 15MP40s for the price of a couple STG-44s.  In fact, they're probably one of the cheapest infantry upgrades you can get for their effectiveness.

[NightRain]

Welcome to the discussion NightRain, there may be a few inperceptions in your argument; the one that jumped out at me most was the idea that volks upgrades are expensive.  They're 50 munitions each, that's only 5 more than an allied grenade and you can get almost 15MP40s for the price of a couple STG-44s.  In fact, they're probably one of the cheapest infantry upgrades you can get for their effectiveness.

Ye ye I know those.

Volksgrenadiers upgrades ARE the cheapest infantry upgrades you can get (besides medkit which is 15 mun for Axis players only)
Though, that's not really my point. Stormtroopers with MP44s manages at least to get Closerange quickly to beat riflemen squads at close range without having to run all the way up to a rifleman squad that will take a defencive position then rape Volks that get close.
Panzerfaust? Yeaaahhh it is useful when spammed (4-5 of those will hurt 2 tanks maybe even destroy!) but wheee I've had it being failed couple of times and there went 50 munition. With Stormtrooper MP44 cost you'd have to dearm 3 Volkssquads with only MP40s or 2 volksquads with both upgrades.
The only reason I give volks Mp40s is that they can at least chase airborne with them and effectively butt rape AT crews (that constantly snipes them with AT gun [where you need expensive snipers? CHEAP 57mm Do the same thing than a Sniper do with more effect! Do not fear Motorcycles they can't harm you unless they surprise you!]) anyway.
Volksgrenadiers are mainly assault unit with MP40. But when you charge at unit that just got into heavy cover (Bared Rifleman) your volks are TOAST! Don't worry I've tried several time (If someone comes and says "Bad micro then" I'll say this: "How is it bad micro when you guide your assault infantry in close range? I don't see any bad microing there")

Stormtroopers with MP44s at least get to close range with a element of surprise to deal versus riflemen (bars or not!) kaboom they are toasted and not the other way around!

"Stormtroopers has no Anti-armor cabilities without Shrecks moan moan" true but is PF any good? It won't scare off a tank if you have one. (especially if its a croc) it will just run to your volks. "Here's my ass baby bang it and bang it hard and I'll show you how hot I can get" <- Crocodile. There.
In this case every German tank runs away from Rifleman and not dare to charge into them like crocs into German infantry- why? PF doesn't break your engine but that's not a point here. I don't like my tank tracks/engine getting dmg because of 20 mun sticky. (4x20 = 80 mun)

Anyway. I hope that answers to all things with little fact as well? <3
kthxbye

[BradTLS]

have u ever tried using stickies? its very rare to even get 2 stickies off let alone 4.

[WinIsUP]

i was using vet 2 rifles last war, i only had 1 squad with stickies, and generally got 3-4 off. you just gota now how to use them. stickies are amazing. far far better than fasuts.

[minehold]

yea 4, is like freaking amazing, idk man the stuff you speak of is like outlandish, stickies usually get microed by anything, very easy to do, a vet 2 sticky is alot better and harder to micro but all the players i know still can micro stickies, they are good, if you can get one off and then pull up an atg to finish off the damaged engine tank then its worth their cost, but for 80 mu, its balanced right now, just pointing out stickies are tough to use

[Akranadas]

I think Volks are at the right price at the moment. The fact that I can equip all my Volks (14+) with MP40s (with Rbs in Munitions) and use them to support my other units is probably what they are best at.

[AlfonsHustler]

....and effectively butt rape AT crews

epic fail

i was charging two mp40 volks squads 3 meter behind an at gun..half the way down in angoville.. they didn't killed a single man
i'm not sure but i think a puma finally finnished this desaster

mp40 volks are a piece of crap for everything other than airborne charging
and if you charge airborne you need a while until you raped them

mp40 volks loose much accuracy while moving (not sure but i think modifier was 0.25) and who will charge your volks to close range while they are waiting in cover?

even rifle without upgrade are much better then mp40 volks

[Akranadas]

Volks fail because people don't know that your meant to use them with HMGs. HMGs and Volks have the perfect synergy, if the unit is pinned or suppressed Mp40 volks will rip them a couple of new ones. Charging Mp40 volks with some form of support is stupid.

[NightRain]

Volks fail because people don't know that your meant to use them with HMGs. HMGs and Volks have the perfect synergy, if the unit is pinned or suppressed Mp40 volks will rip them a couple of new ones. Charging Mp40 volks with some form of support is stupid.

Exactly
They NEED Support weapon in order for them to be effective but yeeh that is true eventually. But guess what? What if you have none of those? Haha then you don't have them CORRECT and they get raped by normal rifleman that gets in cover before volks even reaches them World of Fun. If Volks has MP40s they become assault unit MEANT To assault just like rangers when they get Tommies but those guys are the elite, all they talk is butts though...

i was charging two mp40 volks squads 3 meter behind an at gun..half the way down in angoville.. they didn't killed a single man
i'm not sure but i think a puma finally finnished this desaster

As you said

epic fail

But that is why I said this: BUTT RAPES
Butt=Ass/Anus/whatever term you like to use it is when you come behind it from Front Volkies need 2-3 Fausts to take the AT gun down and destroy it, that was epic in my mind. It was already dmg a little but then 2 faust hits, kaboom! Whohoo.

Meh. I love Volks anyway, they lose their effectiveness when they crew something (did they have a faust/MP40 or not)

[AlfonsHustler]

As you said

epic fail

But that is why I said this: BUTT RAPES
Butt=Ass/Anus/whatever term you like to use it is when you come behind it from Front Volkies need 2-3 Fausts to take the AT gun down and destroy it, that was epic in my mind. It was already dmg a little but then 2 faust hits, kaboom! Whohoo.

SUPERB EPIC FAIL in reading

read again man

that is what i actually did
i followed an at-gun with two mp40 volks a long way
since when an at-gun has a backward gear?

[Unkn0wn]

Volks fail just as much as plain non-vetted riflemen fail.

[UnLimiTeD]

Volks are a really nice unit, that works perfect with doctrines.
Weapon surplus allows you to buy them for around 33 MU, and standing in melee they are as effective as SMG rangers.

Did you follow the AT, or actually stop to shoot?

[AlfonsHustler]

i followed it because it was fast on a road and mp40 do shit in medium or long range