Adjust price recoilles rifle

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[SittingDuckbe]

Hi all!                                                                                                                                       I think that the price of RR for airborne is a bit too high, it costs 220 mun, and compared to the bazooka and panzerschreck it does little damage.                                  In the airborne division this is the only thing you can use on tanks, because ur AT gums are constantly getting artillery fire and they can't pull out fast enough to get away.           I would like to hear ur opinions on this. I think RR should cost about 150 or so.               Grtz                                               

[Killer344]

Use the search function pl0x.

[Unkn0wn]

RRs are very powerful in the right hands, especially since they get 20% more damage at vet 3 and Airbourne has a T2 (AT Eagles) that gives them 20% more penetration. It's true that they perform pretty poor against sideskirts but that's getting changed in the next vCOH patch anyway.

[Leafedge]

Correct price of recoilless is hard to say, since it is the best manpacked AT in the game, and comes, on the best platform for an AT weapon (AB having fireup and being a bit tougher than rangers), they obviously should be the most expensive AT, but 220 is a bit much. Storm schreks are like 170, a 50 muni difference for a similar effect.  

Anyway, main point I think should be this: the old pricing on the RR, before tanks received skirts at vet 2, was the same as it is now. This is a large indirect nerf to the RR, since now half the tanks you are fighting are going to rape the AB, RR's or not. So if the old pricing on the RR was fair, then the new isn't.

Each allied doctrine has atleast some kind of heavy AT option. Airborne get RR's, Infantry gets Tank Reapers (and bazookas, as a light AT addition), and Armour gets pershings. However only Airborne was really affected by the change to skirts, since pershings and AT guns are not affected by skirts, only RR's.

Edit:

RRs are very powerful in the right hands, especially since they get 20% more damage at vet 3 and Airbourne has a T2 (AT Eagles) that gives them 20% more penetration. It's true that they perform pretty poor against sideskirts but that's getting changed in the next vCOH patch anyway.

It has been so damn long since the last vanilla patch I think we can start just pricing things as they are now since the next patch just isn't fucking coming. Next patch = Tale of Valour.

[Wildfire]

qft ^

[SittingDuckbe]

Idd, I think we should adjust the prices now, because the next patch won't be out for a little while.
The correct price is idd a bit hard to say, but like you say, the panzeschreck only costs 170, that's 50 mun difference and I think the panzerschreck is better, even with the +15% penetration T2 ability.

[ssystem]

AFAIK the next patch is actually going to BUFF skirts. That's when we really need to make RRs cheaper.
Personally though I find them fine currently, they're expensive but you start with a ridiculous munitions pool and they're fucking good.

[Leafedge]

ssystem, you start with the same munitions pool as everyone else, and nobody really has problems spending all of their munitions. If we had an overabundant amount of munitions most companies would look very different.

[ssystem]

I know you do but that doesn't change the fact that RRs are very much affordable even given their high prices.

And I do think most companies look very different from before the resources were changed. I used to actually have to sacrifice BARs and use all my RBs to get my 7 recoiless, 2 ATG company. Now I can get it right off the bat with munis to spare. Not to mention the absurd amount of LMGs you see nowadays.

[BlackBanana]

I quote what Leafedge said. And ye Panzerschreks are stronger than rrs (including price balance) since the buff (the old times when calliope could use its main gun and shermans could resist 7-8 schrek hits). In vcoh it is less evident because you can't spam schreks so easily as in EiR.
http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=2ibs_XzZNg4 1:55 In the game for reference

[SittingDuckbe]

Huh? they r very much affordable but high-priced, isn't that a contradiction?
In my squad, I don't have enough ammo to give 7 AB-squads RR !
I only have 2 or max 3 squads with RR and this is too little if your opponent has many tanks and is constantly reaping your AT with their 1-second-deploy tier4 bombardment.
I just think that they should downgrade the price to 175 mun or so, that ould be perfectly affordable and justified. In the vCOH, RR only costs 125MUN, so I think 175 is a just price.

EDIT: haha, lol, that video, jeez the calliope was overpowered back then!

[ssystem]

What I mean is they're expensive but you start off rich so it's OK

The reason you probably can't get 7 RRs is because you're probably sacrificing your munitions for something else, you can't expect to have everything at the same time.

[BlackBanana]

The problem is that schreks which cost 110 each do nearly the same damage as RR's which cost 220. Since OF schrek gained an accuracy buff at any range if the tank isn't moving, RR's have better accuracy but only by a little slice, those two guns aren't that different, their platforms might be.

[BradAxis]

The problem is that schreks which cost 110 each do nearly the same damage as RR's which cost 220. Since OF schrek gained an accuracy buff at any range if the tank isn't moving, RR's have better accuracy but only by a little slice, those two guns aren't that different, their platforms might be.

The shrek actually got a long range nerf, get your facts right before whining about balance.

[BlackBanana]

According to coh stats here there is schrek/recoilless rifle comparison.

schrek                             recoilless rifle
damage: 120                    62.5
range: 35,20,12                35,17,8
accuracy: .35,.75,1          .35,.6,1
reload: 8.5-7.5                 9,7
moving accuracy: 0.5        0.5

http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:Recoilless_Rifle
http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:Wehrmacht_Panzerschreck

are you sure?

[BradAxis]

Throw stats about if you wish i know it got a long range nerf.

[BlackBanana]

I'am not saying that you might not be right, but tell me how do you know that.

[Leafedge]

What I mean is they're expensive but you start off rich so it's OK

The reason you probably can't get 7 RRs is because you're probably sacrificing your munitions for something else, you can't expect to have everything at the same time.

Dude, you would have to start out with more fucking munitions than manpower for this to actually be a valid point. It doesn't matter how much munitions you start with so long as you would still have a use for more. If a weapon does not do as much as similar weapons for an equal or greater price, then that weapon is underpowered or overpriced. In the case of the RR, it is overpriced. for the same munitions price as the RR squad, you can get a storm squad with schrek and a bundled nade. It is about the same for AT (either could be better depending on situation), and it also has a great tool for taking out infantry. Thus, Schrek storm with nade > than AB with RR.

Edit: This is weird, CoH stats is showing better accuracy for the schrek...I'm sure there is something I'm missing, but here it is. Target tables are too complicated for me to put on here, but they are similar.
Weapon - Short/Med/Long

RR - 1/.6/.35
Schrek -  1/.75/.35

[GamerAndy]

actually the stats posted on the previous page don't address the nerf - While thats the theoretical accuracy of the Recoilless, in practice it hits 20-30% of the time when it rolls a "miss"

This is because the scatter angle on the weapon is very low and the speed on the projectile

you can search the forum for this topic, its been discussed to death

[Leafedge]

Good point Andy, what I posted only addresses calculated hits, not physics hits. RR does have better scatter values. However, while I can say what has better values, I don't know enough about scatter to really say much about it in terms of actual effect on performance, and I doubt many here do.