Pak cloak an annoyance!...again!

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[NightRain]

Guys try to use PAK without Camoflage, I assure you it'll get sniped by ATGs and so on.

If it had no Camoflage it'd be easy to kill. How many times people will mortar barrage it? Or charge infantry at it with fire up despite the MG that protects it? Oh yes Sniper as well will cut the crew down and forces axis player to fetch a volk/grenadier squad to recrew it again. I understand that allies do the same but still they carry a much more powerful AT gun in damage. PAK reaches to it only when in cloak. Without that Cloak it'd be just a harmless toy- a minor annoyance to allies tank spam.

Not to mentionate. Artillery.

[UnderpoweredAll]

Not sure about currently, but previously Pak's cost more muni.

It's simple really, axis tanks are slower. As a result allied ATG's don't need cloak, but do higher damage, because axis tanks have more health.

Allied tanks are so fast that without cloak you would lose all pak guns without firing a shot. Not to mention all of the offmaps that will inevitably make it in to the game.

Currently I think, many issues are just due to incomplete doctrines, axis have heaps of unit unlocks, it makes sense wehr will be powerful, until allies get their offmap unlocks to counter.

[gamesguy2]

Guys try to use PAK without Camoflage, I assure you it'll get sniped by ATGs and so on.

If it had no Camoflage it'd be easy to kill. How many times people will mortar barrage it? Or charge infantry at it with fire up despite the MG that protects it? Oh yes Sniper as well will cut the crew down and forces axis player to fetch a volk/grenadier squad to recrew it again. I understand that allies do the same but still they carry a much more powerful AT gun in damage. PAK reaches to it only when in cloak. Without that Cloak it'd be just a harmless toy- a minor annoyance to allies tank spam.

Not to mentionate. Artillery.

Pak outdamages 57mm without taking into account cloak/AP rounds.  AP rounds right now costs munitions, fires only 2 shots, and if you get decrewed before you can fire it it loses the AP rounds.  Recrewed pak still have cloak.

It's simple really, axis tanks are slower. As a result allied ATG's don't need cloak, but do higher damage, because axis tanks have more health.

Axis tanks are slower?  P4 is the same speed as the sherman, and panther outruns shermans.  Of the heavy tanks, churchill is slower than even a tiger, only the KT is slower, but the KT makes up for its slowness by having 2k hp.  Ace is faster than a pershing.

Both sides have fast light vehicles, so that equals out.

The allied tanks are faster argument holds no water.


To the OP, 1 shot decloak or have to sit still to cloak would be fine IMO, then lower the cost a little.

[UnderpoweredAll]

Nope.

http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:57mm_AT_Gun
http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:50mm_Pak_38

33% decrease in reload time.

Given that people don't sit in front of AT and take shots I think the ATG is at an advantage.

[gamesguy2]

Nope.

http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:57mm_AT_Gun
http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:50mm_Pak_38

33% decrease in reload time.

Given that people don't sit in front of AT and take shots I think the ATG is at an advantage.

Thats supposed to show what exactly?  I've done the math, pak does 10% more dps compared to the 57mm ignoring cloak/AP rounds.

57mm does more damage per shot, but pak gets off more shots faster.  My pak usually gets off 2 shots before the sherman can back away, but my 57mm only gets off one against a P4.

[UnderpoweredAll]

Nope.

http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:57mm_AT_Gun
http://coh-stats.com/Weapon:50mm_Pak_38

33% decrease in reload time.

Given that people don't sit in front of AT and take shots I think the ATG is at an advantage.

Thats supposed to show what exactly?  I've done the math, pak does 10% more dps compared to the 57mm ignoring cloak/AP rounds.

57mm does more damage per shot, but pak gets off more shots faster.  My pak usually gets off 2 shots before the sherman can back away, but my 57mm only gets off one against a P4.

Sigh, pointless. Whatever makes you sleep better.

[Schreder]

Guys try to use PAK without Camoflage, I assure you it'll get sniped by ATGs and so on.

So make that not being able to happen at all. Beta change didnt do much. You're still able to snipe atgs easy as before.

[BigDick]

Guys try to use PAK without Camoflage, I assure you it'll get sniped by ATGs and so on.

If it had no Camoflage it'd be easy to kill. How many times people will mortar barrage it? Or charge infantry at it with fire up despite the MG that protects it? Oh yes Sniper as well will cut the crew down and forces axis player to fetch a volk/grenadier squad to recrew it again. I understand that allies do the same but still they carry a much more powerful AT gun in damage. PAK reaches to it only when in cloak. Without that Cloak it'd be just a harmless toy- a minor annoyance to allies tank spam.

Not to mentionate. Artillery.

signed

pak38 is weaker and easier to destroy then 57mm
fireup negates all protecting suppression...
the missing suppression and not recrewable is what makes the marderIII sucks for PE
ontop of that the superior onmap/offmap(later) allies arty completely destroys the pak38 easily when it's not cloaked

and pak38 does much lower damage (fires faster) and when a tank come into range it shots...does low damage and everyone knows where it is and can move back and destroy it easily

[rai0]

bigdick, bigbullshit

 r

[Bubz]

Ugh I think bigdick has been beaten too hard in his childhood, so now he is too axis biased, anyway 2-3 schreks hits kill a 57mm. From any range.

[rai0]

.. tryin to save his last chance to take out enemy Ats and Emplls  : ))

r

[EscforrealityTLS]

Rai0 I realise that English probably isn't your first language but please spend a little more time on grammar a sentence structure. Reading your posts is extremely irritating.

[rai0]

no need 2 be serious
 but ye, my english is funny

 

[Mysthalin_Axis]

Pak has a better firerate than 57s. It's so much better, actually, that using the semi-auto ATG exploit on the pak actually reduces it's overall firerate...
Shermans are slower than P4s, so are cromwells(without flank speed). The P4 is about 20 percent faster than a sherm. You can 2 shot an ATG with shreks, and you can't suppress the shrecks in time to save the 57 mm.
Fire up removes line of sight on infantry(try it) and infantry can't shoot while sprinting, so using fire up to catch a pak does not always work.
Proposing to use artilery is rather invalid, as brittish arty is too short range, and the american howitzer is just plain rare to see(as well as having poor accuracy into the FoW). Offmaps are non-existant.

If it had no Camoflage it'd be easy to kill. How many times people will mortar barrage it? Or charge infantry at it with fire up despite the MG that protects it? Oh yes Sniper as well will cut the crew down and forces axis player to fetch a volk/grenadier squad to recrew it again.

Did you just say that without camo the pak would be killed by all the same things 57s get killed by? That's one big DUH!
Let me inform you that fire-up units come with availabilities of 4 and cost a lot, as well as being doctrinal.
Allied HMGs simply dont suppress axis stuff like volks and grens.
Axis mortar > allied mortar.
Axis have snipers with supperior fire rates.

So excuse me, but claiming "but then allies will be able to kill it without accidentaly stumbling upon it or unleashing a full-force offensive!" is not a valid argument.

[RikiRude]

pak38 is weaker and easier to destroy then 57mm

It might be weaker, but how do you easily destroy something you can't see in the first place?


A fix I was thinking about for the pak, would be that it can't move forward or backwards while cloaked, only rotate. Once it moves forward or backwards it would lose its cloak. This would stop the pak from being mainly used as a spotter/ATG destroyer and put it back in its role as a defensive AT gun.

[bfhogues]

NO ONE smart uses a pak to spot, they are too expensive and slow.

And as for sniping allied at guns, if you have support and dont push your at guns forward w out support pak sniping is very hard to do. at guns should be behind your front lines anyways, making the paks get too close to your other troops to pull off the 3+ shots needed to destroy a cheaper allied ATG(unless prices have changed).

[Dragon2008]

It not so hard to find a pak when its cloaked. Just listen on the map and follow the smoke trail from the shell. It will lead u straight towards the Pak and its not like its goin to get away fast because its absolutly slow when cloaked.

[bfhogues]

Yes Dragon.
follow the smoke.
dont bum rush your tanks, at guns into no mans land.

Tacticity, Tactoo, Tactics or something i believe as its called in France. I hear its a gas to try.

[BigDick]

pak38 is weaker and easier to destroy then 57mm

It might be weaker, but how do you easily destroy something you can't see in the first place?

because all the arty of allies and i talked about when cloak function is missing

[jackmccrack]

Moving a Pak ahead followed by an MG = using a Pak to spot. I do it all the time.