greyhound too expensive?

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[TheDeadlyShoe]

As many longtime players know, the Greyhound's current price is a result of Greyhound spamming, especially Greyhound spamming stacked with self repair and buff abilities. 

But now we have other spam control methods, using PP.   And when compared to other units the Greyhound comes off pretty poorly costwise.  It costs the same pop and more manpower than a Marder.  It costs more manpower than a Stuart, which it is roughly comparable to if you take at least one upgrade.  The AT halftrack is more capable (but less maneuverable) for less than half the pop and less manpower.  My radio scout cars regularly get more kills than any Greyhounds I field.

although I do <3 the mines.

TL;DR - The greyhound could use a manpower reduction and perhaps less pop.

P.S. update manual thread please. The prices are old (AT halftrack listed at 5 pop) and I don't even know if the new vet is implemented or not but the vet list is the old one.

P.P.S. I haven't played Wehrmacht yet, but I barely see any Pumas fielded. Similar problems?

[Benevolence]

I see plenty of Pumas, they're reasonably priced. I think Greyhounds are alright priced wise at the moment, the only reason i get one though is i have fuel to blow and if used with infantry it adds that little bit of firepower. Also don't forget about the fact that it can circle Marders, stugs, Stuhs and is quick so it just drives pas a PaK and unloads into the crew (presuming the pak is not ninja cloaked).

[MannfredvonRitter]

M8's are useful, it's just that with so many PE players sherman spam is more cost effective currently.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

I don't question their usefulness, just the price. Bear in mind that a greyhound needs upgrades to be effective for its popcap, so it has to spend munitions whereas a vanilla puma is perfectly effective.

[Malevolence]

Uh, m8 is like incredibly effective vs PE compared to shermans? I'm confused.

[puddin]

The M8 Skirt should be less then 100 Mu. 

To make an M8 Effective you need 150 Mu into it, The skirt is over priced at 100MU aince Axis Skirts on Tanks are only 50. 

50 Mu for MG and 50 Mu for skirts.  Thanks will make a post in the propper channles, I forgot about this.

[RikiRude]

The M8 Skirt should be less then 100 Mu. 

To make an M8 Effective you need 150 Mu into it, The skirt is over priced at 100MU aince Axis Skirts on Tanks are only 50. 

50 Mu for MG and 50 Mu for skirts.  Thanks will make a post in the propper channles, I forgot about this.

thank god, because I could def use an extra bar in my company, I always thought M8 was over priced, but I have to have them in my company, they are just too useful, but that 50mu .50 and 100mu skirts (i run two upgraded m8s) just drains my muni. 

[Malevolence]

50 munitions for skirts is a bit cheap for a health-doubling ability compared to the machine gun. Either make the MG on top cheaper if you make skirts 50 or make the skirts like 75. 100 is too much, I agree.

[Skaevola]

The M8 Skirt should be less then 100 Mu. 

To make an M8 Effective you need 150 Mu into it, The skirt is over priced at 100MU aince Axis Skirts on Tanks are only 50. 

50 Mu for MG and 50 Mu for skirts.  Thanks will make a post in the propper channles, I forgot about this.

thank god, because I could def use an extra bar in my company, I always thought M8 was over priced, but I have to have them in my company, they are just too useful, but that 50mu .50 and 100mu skirts (i run two upgraded m8s) just drains my muni. 

Wait a minute...

They're overpriced, but so good that you have to have some in your company? Doesn't that make them well balanced?

[Tymathee]

if the mp price went down, I'd buy them more often but atm it's just too much, ditto the quad.

[MannfredvonRitter]

The M8 Skirt should be less then 100 Mu. 

To make an M8 Effective you need 150 Mu into it, The skirt is over priced at 100MU aince Axis Skirts on Tanks are only 50. 

50 Mu for MG and 50 Mu for skirts.  Thanks will make a post in the propper channles, I forgot about this.

thank god, because I could def use an extra bar in my company, I always thought M8 was over priced, but I have to have them in my company, they are just too useful, but that 50mu .50 and 100mu skirts (i run two upgraded m8s) just drains my muni. 

Wait a minute...

They're overpriced, but so good that you have to have some in your company? Doesn't that make them well balanced?

I want some of these 50mu skirts you have for axis, in fact i'll take 10! I better stockpile at these prices they won't last.

Axis skirts reduce damage from manpacked. M8 skirts double health, you can't even compare their costs they have a very different function and one of them has less versatility.

Quad Pwns, sherman in current climate is just too good/versatile to trade in for other units for the most part. It's fuel costs just seem to balance nicely with 4 of them and a croc, least for me it just seems like perfect synergy in spending . That said, I've seen lots of M8 Rape even in EIRR.

[RikiRude]

the problem with the greyhound is two lucky shots even with skirts will kill it, and you really have to micro the hell out of it and have it sitting there doing nothing getting repaired for it to make up its worth.

[sgMisten]

I want some of these 50mu skirts you have for axis, in fact i'll take 10! I better stockpile at these prices they won't last.

Axis skirts reduce damage from manpacked. M8 skirts double health, you can't even compare their costs they have a very different function and one of them has less versatility.

Comparing across LIGHT vehicles (the category the M8 is in)

150HP M8 - 310 MP, 50 F, 8 pop
300HP M8 - 310 MP, 50 F, 8 pop, 100 Mun
300HP Stuart Light Tank - 295 MP, 60 F, 8 pop
310HP Puma - 300 MP, 50 F, 8 pop
310HP Puma - 300 MP, 50 F, 8 pop, 85 Mun (upgun)
220HP Armored Car - 260 MP, 30 F, 6 pop

Pak 38 damage (1 shot / 2.4s) = 115 (uncloaked)
Pak 38 damage (1 shot / 2.4s) = 144 (firststrike)
57mm damage (1 shot / 3.5s) = 150
Wehr Shreck damage (1 shot / 8.0s) = 120

[Smokaz]

Lets not forget that the M8 is upgraded to deal with both infantry and light vehicles/slow armor at once, something the Puma cannot do with its upgrade. It makes sense that its higher priced because of this versatility. There are very few targets for the upgunned puma compared to the M8, but support for both factions usually makes it difficult to micro units like these therefore less meaningful than more easy to use hard hitters. Its also the same pop as the puma and does a way better job unless its hard countered.

[Malevolence]

Ritter I'd say the damage reducing skirts are just as good at their job. While AT gun damage remains the same, with less damage from manpacked AT (i.e. a good chunk of AT options) less repair needs to be done, whereas a mere rote health increase and the 15 minute repair job turns into a 30 minute repair job.

That being said, health also has benefits such as being useful against AT hits.

[sgMisten]

Lets not forget that the M8 is upgraded to deal with both infantry and light vehicles/slow armor at once, something the Puma cannot do with its upgrade.

The M8 cannon and the upgunned Puma cannon perform pretty similarly, cept the Puma one does more damage.

It's more like:
normal M8 = anti-inf, anti-lightveh
normal Puma = anti-inf
upgun Puma = anti-inf, anti-lightveh

The puma's a good anti-inf light vehicle for its price, excluding the upgun. If the Amis want to have a good anti-inf light vehicle the closest is the M3 halftrack in terms of cost (which is quite a bit cheaper). Quad HT is good anti-inf but it's more expensive than M8 even with skirts. M8 won't cut it for that duty pricewise.

[Smokaz]

yes, but when you add the 50.cal and the skirts its anti vehicle ability remains unchanged.. but tbh how long will a good player allow your frail m8 to engage his non-shreked infantry? same with pumas.. both are shock units in retail for good reason

[Skaevola]

Axis skirts are actually amazing and everyone should buy them. On the p4 iirc the regular shreck does something like 2x or 1.5x normal damage to it, which adds up to killing it in 3 or 4 shots. With skirts however the modifier goes down to .5 or .25, a huge decrease. m8 skirts should be cheap simply because they are NECESSARY for the unit to exist.

[Tymathee]

^ heh agreed. put it at 75 that'd be fine, it's a good comprimise.

[MannfredvonRitter]

I didn't even make any such statements. Would you know this shit off, please? I'm asking kindly because I am getting quite irate. If you aren't trolling I apologise, but the manner in which you follow me around certainly suggests to the contrary.

Where did I say either was better than the other?

"Axis skirts reduce damage from manpacked. M8 skirts double health, you can't even compare their costs they have a very different function and one of them has less versatility."

Last I read, skirts on a PIV are 80 MU, I think that such a huge understatement of their cost by some people could be taken as fanboyism and at the least, complete unfamiliarity of the axis team. 20 More munitions isn't that huge of a cost for such a drastically increased lifetime. Imagine a P4 with double health! Personally I would love to have double health on my puma.