[PE] Fallshirmjaegers

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[MannfredvonRitter]

Well, I was reading through some posts the other day, I came accross the opinion that anti building grenades suck/useless and no one takes them, I would agree that this is true and after making extensive use of fallshirmjaegers along with having no other infantry at all some points dawned on me.

In terms of other elite infantry Fallshirmjaegers are quite poor. All other elite infantry have breakthrough capabilities and FJ used to have these also.

How you say? Well the good old reliable FJ used to be able to jump out of buildings near enemy HMG's and such and throw their bundle of joy and use this to help break through, especially in heavily build up areas this made them lethal, with their low health for a squad (for elites) this ability also enabled them to get into cover from the start of the fight and earn back their cost. Any user of FJ will have noted that unlike other elite infantry, if they're caught in the open they're dead meat.

If we take stock of other elite infantry:
Rangers: Fireup
Airborne: Fireup
Stormtroopers: Cloak
KCH: Fucking Badass as hell
Fallshirmjaeger: Die really fast + Mini Cloak

Whilst all other infantry have a niche application which helps their usage, FJ have very limited niche usages. Currently they are high damage output, low health infantry, which I would have to argue is hardly a niche.

I'm simply asking that there is at least a trial with the FJ ability to come out of a building, that or just walk in normally from a friendly spawn (as they would in vCoH). One of the PE's problems, is breakthrough capabilities, I feel this would improve that and in addition give the anti building grenade a use once again. (FJ sprinting to kill the enemy are hardly going to survive long enough to plant the grenade ).

Failing that, FJ would benefit far more with an upgrade from cover cloak, to cloak like stormtroopers and removal of paradropping ability. I have yet to see a single PE player make extensive use of the paradrop. If you accidentally drop near BAR riflemen or a HMG your FJ are toast, 140mu and 250mp is an expensive drop, and with only 4 squads in most companies it isn't worth the risk. Even IF they get behind enemy lines, what can they do? Decrew an ATG :S. The ability to drop isn't even slightly useful in the context of the unit.

Before people say I've done this before, think back and see how often you've seen them used decently in that capacity overall, not personally or on occasion. I don't think a permanent cloak would be terribly OP or unfair and I would expect to see a slight price rise with this, but I would hope that with this they would see a return to their status as elite infantry, either that or give them back their building infiltration ability, if you use this without support they die anyways, but it's still far better than a paradrop without fireup(all paradropping units before them have a get out of jail card (smoke or fireup).

In summary, I would rather see a price rise on the unit and some added usability than see it at its current cost and fail at its role.

Thanks,
MvR

[sgMisten]

The antibuilding grenade only has its 1.25x modifier against British emplacements. American structures such as the howitzer have a 0.25x modifier. Meaning the antibuilding grenade works against Brits (except their emplacements can be downed by mortars anyway) but not work against Amis.

[Rahx]

That's no good... should be effective against both factions.

Anyway, Fallschirmjaegers are able to spawn everywhere, right? -And stormtroopers ain't... so that mini cloack ability is just fine, cause a real cloacking ability would be OP compared to a stormtrooper squad...

Hope I'm right...

[VariantThirteen]

Yep, like pretty much everything PE have, Falls suck.

I find it absolutely incredible that Reclic released Falls with the same CP requirement as Rangers and AB, but neglected to actually make them any fucking good.

I cannot advocate any army built around falls at the moment.

[Tymathee]

so high damage "low h ealth" isn't a niche? how about this.

    * Accuracy x 1.25
    * Damage x 1.25

thats the 1st strike th ey get when in "mini cloak" whhich is  epic.

also it seems if you use anti b ulding nades in neg cover, they give a x2 bonus on dmg.

but anywho, falls are really great units, you might not be using t hem well, maybe you shouldnt' use them at all if you can't get 'em to work right for you. Like me, i suck with rangers, i cant' use 'em, even though Im inf, i just dont even bother. Maybe, you should shy away from using falls if you can't get 'em to work for you.

also their health isn't that bad.

Falls 4 men 240 health = 60 per man
rangers and commandos 6/390 65 per man
Kch, 3/270 90 per man
stormies, 4/380 95 per man

so lower health yes total but per man isn't on par with rangers and commandos, 5 health doesn't really make much of a difference.

people need to stpo u sing falls like kch, they're not. the fg42 sucks at firing on the move like most smgs, but, stop and let the enemy come to you and they'll tear into them. Stick 'em in a building, kinda like a defacto hmg w/o the suppressoin. use them to surprise tanks with their fausts, use the building nades to make stuff run out the building and then kill it (best to use 2 falls) maybe, it'd help if they could sprint.

but also remember, lots of docs aren't in and atm, falls are pretty good, i see 'em all the time, so obvoiusly quitea few people thinkt hey're useful

[Sach]

Yep, like pretty much everything PE have, Falls suck.

I find it absolutely incredible that Reclic released Falls with the same CP requirement as Rangers and AB, but neglected to actually make them any fucking good.

I cannot advocate any army built around falls at the moment.

rofl. When Relic released Falls they would literally rape every other unit in the game. 2 squads of Fjs could simply run through any other combination of infantry in the game.

[Mysthalin]

I still love FSJ in vCoH - best, and only, counter to ranger blobs ^^.

Seeing as the ABIG(Anti-Building Incendiary Grenade) does only 0.5-1.5 damage per second, and has a 30 second burn timer... 1 dam modifier vs infantry... Yeah, I'd rather just stay in the house with my rifle squad and get half-healthed(3 quarter healthed at worst situation, quarter healthed at best) than get out of the house and die to the FG42 .

[Unkn0wn]

Don't forget sprint at vet 2.
Also, when you see the luftwaffe doctrine you'll be pleased .

[Pak88mm]

i use em but i only have 3  of em. all with fg42s and faust. paradrop is caca since u cant just drop on a priest or calli and mash it. Pfaust range is shit and have yet to reach vet 2 with em and need 3 for pfaust range. inciden nades are horrid since no brits uses emplacements any more. they are horrid assaulting they are only good on the defense and even then their staying power on the field is limited since they always lose one man in any engagement after that cromwell shot pretty much ends your day. They are just good to defend....nothing more.

[Smokaz]

Thes upgraded fallschirm guys are weaker than a BAR squad for most purposes, and only do a mediocre job doing one and one only particular thing.. defending from cover. Fallschirmsjagers are not worth to upgrade atm. If you tons of PP you should still spam unupgraded falls as they are quite nice.

[panzerjager1943]

    * Accuracy x 1.25
    * Damage x 1.25

I'm sorry, that is NOT epic.
That boosts Fallschrimjager DPS to roughly the same as Grenadier DPS. (Less infact. Saddening.)
Oh, but let's not forget it only lasts 4 shots, and then you're back down to less-than-Volksgrenadier DPS. It also doesn't help the FG42 at all, because the FG42's accuracy is quite low anyways, and it puts out 4 rounds in less than a second.

[MannfredvonRitter]

so high damage "low h ealth" isn't a niche? how about this.

    * Accuracy x 1.25
    * Damage x 1.25

thats the 1st strike th ey get when in "mini cloak" whhich is  epic.

also it seems if you use anti b ulding nades in neg cover, they give a x2 bonus on dmg.

but anywho, falls are really great units, you might not be using t hem well, maybe you shouldnt' use them at all if you can't get 'em to work right for you. Like me, i suck with rangers, i cant' use 'em, even though Im inf, i just dont even bother. Maybe, you should shy away from using falls if you can't get 'em to work for you.

also their health isn't that bad.

Falls 4 men 240 health = 60 per man
rangers and commandos 6/390 65 per man
Kch, 3/270 90 per man
stormies, 4/380 95 per man

so lower health yes total but per man isn't on par with rangers and commandos, 5 health doesn't really make much of a difference.

people need to stpo u sing falls like kch, they're not. the fg42 sucks at firing on the move like most smgs, but, stop and let the enemy come to you and they'll tear into them. Stick 'em in a building, kinda like a defacto hmg w/o the suppressoin. use them to surprise tanks with their fausts, use the building nades to make stuff run out the building and then kill it (best to use 2 falls) maybe, it'd help if they could sprint.

but also remember, lots of docs aren't in and atm, falls are pretty good, i see 'em all the time, so obvoiusly quitea few people thinkt hey're useful

Doesn't stack with the FG42, ambush that is.

I was saying remove paradrop but give them permanent cloak also, not both. Or give them some other sort of ability befitting of elite infantry, all elite inf have such abilities.

FJ were epic in vCoH due to the veterancy they could get and the building deploy. They have neither here.

[jackmccrack]

Falls are great. Use them to hold a line and you'll see what I mean.

[Smokaz]

FG42 fallschirms are not great jack, if you think they are great maybe you and me should play a couple of games. They are mp44s with slightly more health, slightly worse damage at short range, slightly better damage at medium range. The range on their faust is shit, the ambush modifier phases out too quickly and the fire bomb is useless.

Fighting from ambush is good as long as the other guy isnt in cover, but fallschirms still die like flies to flamers, nades and shermans like regular PGs.

[jackmccrack]

I'm pretty sure I beat you in a couple of those games using my Falls

[Schultz]

I wish they had more health so they could not lose one man in every skirmish.

[Tymathee]

^ you mean like commandos and rangers always lose men? come on, they have the same health almost as both those units.

Also to Smokaz, the Fg42 has better accuracy than the mp44. the only reason the stormtropper is better at assaulting with the mp44 is because stomries have 95 health, and falls 60, so yeah, you can run 'em after something and not lose a lot of health and keep firing but you can't do it with falls, which is why they're better at defending because you aren't losing health.

why can't you guys just realize that PE are not wehr and their infantry dont have uber health anymore? They play more like the allies really just with smaller squads and specialize more. Although I've lost all my pe games I've done rather well and I like the PE. I wish I had some falls, I'm tired of grenz, all my games have been lost beause my grenz just can't hack it lol. i need to learn how to use 'em.

[MannfredvonRitter]

FJ have about 240 health
Commandos have 390
Airborne have 420, not even that far off of double the FJ health AND have fire up, satchels and grenades, making them in general more useful inside of their role, which is behind enemy lines.

Not even close, the commando squad is just so much more survivable. Against nades/tanks especially.

Because PE often have a surplus of manpower the rationale for the FG42 squad is low, considering one can have two G43 squads instead for that amount of mu.

I'm not saying they're horrible, but rather they don't fulfill a specialist role at all as they should. Mostly I'm just hoping they get their building infiltration ability back so they can perhaps achieve a role similar to before.....

I mean, seriously, paradrop is epic fail considering how the FJ operate. They just don't have any ability to capitalise on a paradrop, using it is just inviting disaster.

[Smokaz]

(I knew this from retail, but this site should be your new friend Tymathee. http://coh-stats.com/Category:Panzer_Elite_Weapons)
Valid point about commandos, but they are 6 guys with stens to begin with. Rangers used for fighting inf are min/maxed through only upgrading thompsons on them, meaning they do NOT lose any important firepower before the 3rd guy in the squad drops and a thompson is lost. They also come within the same doctrine as the uber fantastic triage which allows them back into action way faster than the scout car will.

And mp44s outperform FG42s at short range on top of having better moving accuracy.

Mp44 > FG42

Except in one single situation, where the fallschirms are sitting in cover engaging enemies at medium range.

The current mp44 is a better weapon on a cheaper platform. There is no reason to get luftwaffe for FG42s.

Also, rangers slaughter fallschirms. Rangers can charge them and rip them apart in 2-3 seconds. This is not a nice comparison though as the current rangers are making all the other assault inf other than the very expensive storms look like utter crap, complete shit.

[BigDick]

^ you mean like commandos and rangers always lose men? come on, they have the same health almost as both those units.

Also to Smokaz, the Fg42 has better accuracy than the mp44. the only reason the stormtropper is better at assaulting with the mp44 is because stomries have 95 health, and falls 60, so yeah, you can run 'em after something and not lose a lot of health and keep firing but you can't do it with falls, which is why they're better at defending because you aren't losing health.

why can't you guys just realize that PE are not wehr and their infantry dont have uber health anymore? They play more like the allies really just with smaller squads and specialize more. Although I've lost all my pe games I've done rather well and I like the PE. I wish I had some falls, I'm tired of grenz, all my games have been lost beause my grenz just can't hack it lol. i need to learn how to use 'em.

omg what are you talking about?
`
Rangersquad has same health as a commando squad means 390HP a fallschirmjägersquad has 240HP
that means only 60% health of commandos and rangers

ontop of this rangers have elite armor that is much better
and equiped with assault guns they can loose 50% of their men without loosing significant amount of firepower

if you look at other PE assault infantry it is looking even more worse
a default assaultgren squad has only 165HP means 42% health of a ranger or commando squad

your "uber"wehrmacht infantry like stormtroopers have 380 health that is lower than ranger or commandos too
and they get no elite armor like rangers

realy please don't post when you dont know what you are talking about