Pak38, the Root of All Evil

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[Piotrskivich]

I am a US player most of time and I find the Pak easy to beat, it just takes some tactics, you hit it with infantry and it dies easy, and if you can capture it then you have a great weapon.

Basically Axis have to be careful with their weapons because they are more expensive and a much bigger risk to lose.

My last victory the enemy were all Wehr and had lots of them. Basically players need to use real tactics like ALWAYS having infantry in front of their tanks. Almost every tanks alone rush ends up with no survivors. And if your worried about mgs covering their paks then use rangers or airborne and kill pak while on fire up.

I really like the Wehr and US right now, they have lots of counters to different things and more usable strategies.

[Tymathee]

^ taking a pak with american infantry is only good in denying their use to the enemy, its weaker than the 57.

now...the .50 cal and the 81mm, def, i love grabbing those and using them against the wehr, pisses them off, especailly the 81 And as brits, 81mm + lieutenant = pwnage

[deadb0lt]

How the hell do you pinpoint the location of the Pak with its noise?

I've been able to hear the Pak and find its general location when I have nothing better to do than study the FOW, but to the extent that one can drop arty on it...my speakers simply aren't that good, and they work for pretty much everything else.

its easier on roads and open cover cos the pak if u hunt for it shows a green cover symbol with ur arrow, knowing tricks like this saves lives :O

[Warlight]

2. Arc. You can follow it yes, but say you're in a tank, how do you get away from something you dont know which way it is pointing? Heck, you may have just entered the arc, do you go back the other way? or keep going forward hoping to get away from it...

3. infantry, what self respecting wehr commander wont have at least 1 hmg on the field and more times than not, it is near that infernal pak. You try and find it, get a burst from the hmg try to go back and you get pinned...the hmg just makes the pak more powerful, then with the mortars of d00m, even more insane sometimes.

@2  If the pak is already shooting your tank, yes your in a bad spot.  But it takes (at least) 3 shots to kill a tank, so you'll know where its at afterwords anyway.  Once again, if you search for paks with a tank, your not using your brain.

@3  If this were true, then you just located every pak in every wher army.  Expect there to be one covering every machingun, and vice versa.  Then Remember that your artillery melts Faces, and go from there.


You'd be suprised how many unguarded paks there are.  Simply because the MG's get rolled so easily.  SOOOO Easily.  

I understand that war isn't fare, All I can say is use more dedectors.  Jeeps are a poor choice sure, but recently I've had tons of trouble with English players useing there recon elements.  Finding my stuff all over the place.

Its true, that I ONLY play wher, ever, when at all possible.  I mean, I have only ever played english once in EIR, never americans.  I think the difficulty for people who have to deal with the Pak is that its counters, don't  always counter it.  

Really, pak sniping isn't a problem, because if we are sniping you, its becuase we have no other choice.  Hell it dosn't always work either, like when a Bofors snipes the crew of my gun thats trying to snipe it.  But i'll leave the bofors for another argument.  

Truth is, fighting somethign you can't see sucks, and it will continue to suck.  Noone likes being cautious, having to think.  Most units havea counter, paks, not so much.  There are plenty of players out there on the allied side who deal with them alright.  

But if you need something fixed, I suggest this:

Give Brits more recon Squads, and make jeeps dodge pak rounds ALOT better.  It seems like if I sneeze in their direction the get rolfpwned.  

But Paks are most definatly not the weapons of mass destrucion some people make them out to be.  I curtainly wish they were though... as a person who uses them all the time.

[Mysthalin]

A bit contradictory, your post, warlight, it still shows a rather good grasp of balance on a one-sided player ^^.


The pak is powerful, it's annoying, but it's not a WMD. Nerfing it to one shot then decloak, cloak only in cover, cloak only when immobile... all those are just overnerfs.

Yet again, it could not paksnipe or uberwtf rape tanks if it didn't have it's epic LOS when stealthed. It wouldn't really make the pak unviable, though it would remove it's use as a pak-sniper and scout for mortars/nebels/whatever the hell you think is long range enough to use the pak's LOS.

[Tymathee]

^ not a bad idea...lower the los when cloaked, hmm.

[Two]

A bit contradictory, your post, warlight, it still shows a rather good grasp of balance on a one-sided player ^^.


The pak is powerful, it's annoying, but it's not a WMD. Nerfing it to one shot then decloak, cloak only in cover, cloak only when immobile... all those are just overnerfs.

Yet again, it could not paksnipe or uberwtf rape tanks if it didn't have it's epic LOS when stealthed. It wouldn't really make the pak unviable, though it would remove it's use as a pak-sniper and scout for mortars/nebels/whatever the hell you think is long range enough to use the pak's LOS.

Decloaking after 1 shot doesnt sound like a over nerf to me, sounds like common sense. And what i really hate is when you bring a tank up the rear of it but at range since shreks are nearby and it cloaks while firing at your other tank 

[Mysthalin]

Yeah, that's an annoying little bug, but yes, a 3 shots decloak to 1 shots decloak is a bit overdoing it, don't you think? It's basically halving, if not setting it to a third, the cloak effect of the pak. It would be the same as setting the build speed of all brittish emplacements to 1 minute again and the ranges reverted. Everybody would just start buying shreks instead of paks, like they bought anything but emplacements before.

[Two]

Not true, shreks still dont hit anywhere near as much as paks or have the range, it would finally be classifiable as a proper support weapon.

[RikiRude]

If decloaking after 1 hit is too much, then take away its accuracy and penetration bonuses it has, and make it so when other factions capture it they can cloak as well. I never understood why abilities are faction only. What the US can't forge for some leaves to camo a pak once they stole it? 

[Mgallun74]

If decloaking after 1 hit is too much, then take away its accuracy and penetration bonuses it has, and make it so when other factions capture it they can cloak as well. I never understood why abilities are faction only. What the US can't forge for some leaves to camo a pak once they stole it? 

or just get some for the 57mm which is a much better gun..

[Sach]

If you''re going to nerf the pak I would start with the sight range, make it the same as a volks squad and i think that will at least give emplacements more of a chance.

[BigDick]

If you''re going to nerf the pak I would start with the sight range, make it the same as a volks squad and i think that will at least give emplacements more of a chance.

but then do that with at57mm too that this thing need some infantry to give more sight too

[Mysthalin]

see, big, the 57 can't go around as a scout. The pak can, with it's cloak.

[EliteGrens]

Scouting with Paks will result in failure most of the time.
If you move it too far forward it will just get decloaked by some random infantry going by.
I have yet to see the Pak being used as a good spotter in a game.

[BigDick]

maybe but it makes its at function pretty useless too if you need to have always a 240 mp 5 pop grensquad in front of it to hit anything

and people using their pak38 for deep scouting in enemy territory that cannot defend against neither infantry nor tanks on its own are really careless with their 400MP 140 munition units


when there really people have problems with scouting pak38 through enemy territories then lower its sight while cloaked AND on the move

[Mysthalin]

Deep scouting isn't a problem - it rarely happens, people rather use bikes/sturms for that anyways.

Well, you usualy always have something near a pak - an HMG, a gren shrekker, a volks, even a front-line scout duties bike. Don't think it would nerf the pak too significantly, just that it would have to stay a bit further back from the very front, like the other ATGs do.

[BigDick]

ehh i use my AT57mm in front of hmgs covering in the cone of the hmg not behind my hmgs (because that would be realy dumb)

[Sach]

If you''re going to nerf the pak I would start with the sight range, make it the same as a volks squad and i think that will at least give emplacements more of a chance.

but then do that with at57mm too that this thing need some infantry to give more sight too

um ok.....

Sure but what would you be trying to achieve by nerfing 57 mm sight range?

unsupported paks can quickly and easily kill emplacements from cloaked and outside the emplacement's sight range.

[Mgallun74]

If you''re going to nerf the pak I would start with the sight range, make it the same as a volks squad and i think that will at least give emplacements more of a chance.

but then do that with at57mm too that this thing need some infantry to give more sight too

um ok.....

Sure but what would you be trying to achieve by nerfing 57 mm sight range?

making it less effective?