Pak38, the Root of All Evil

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Sach]

If you''re going to nerf the pak I would start with the sight range, make it the same as a volks squad and i think that will at least give emplacements more of a chance.

but then do that with at57mm too that this thing need some infantry to give more sight too

um ok.....

Sure but what would you be trying to achieve by nerfing 57 mm sight range?

making it less effective?

you think the 57mm is too effective?

[AmPM]

Again, I always find PAKs easy to catch. Listen for it, drive a jeep over to get shot at, if it doesn't get shot look for PAK. If it does get shot, arty the spot the shell came from, advance infantry, kill/capture PAK. If its moving away from the area its tank food as well.

The problem comes from 3-4 PAKs and a bunch of support, but then again your enemy isn't attacking and Allies have a massive Arty advantage.

Now, I don't use PAKs anymore, Wehr isn't challenging enough (support weapons rule the mod) so I use PE.

[BigDick]

Sure but what would you be trying to achieve by nerfing 57 mm sight range?

to even it out?

there is no reason why a pak38 in front of a hmg need an other unit much more in front while the AT57mm don't need it....that would not be good to balance it like this

[Sach]

that would be assuming the pak and 57mm are already even.

I think the 57 having the greater sight range would make things more even since it would increase the chances of a 57 getting the jump on a pak instead of vice versa which happens 90% of the time.

[AmPM]

Does that mean we get a PAK price decrease?

They are annoying, not a balance issue. So if you lower its abilities then it should get a price decrease. Maybe to be equal to a 57mm then.

[Sach]

that would seem reasonable, whats the price difference at the moment?

[BigDick]

400mp 140muni for pak38


but i had the observations that a pak38 die much easier to shermans cromwells and stuff (after decloaked) than an at57mm to panzer4

unfortunally there are no stats on coh-stats and im to lazy to have a look into the gamefiles now and to calculate how much more easy a pak38 is killed

but since we have no mirror matches every faction should get unique units that are balanced to counter...

when the cloak is such a problem the accuracy of at guns against scouting units need to be lowered (but don't increase the decloaking range that would make cloake senseless)

[AmPM]

57mm - 380 MP, 110 Mun, 4 pop

PaK - 400 MP, 140 Mun, 4 pop

And reducing accuracy vs scouting vehicles is another handicap to make up for poor playing. No scouting vehicle should ever be driving towards the enemy in an open field....use shot blocking terrain to get close and use your superior LoS.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

So why is the 57 so horribly inaccurate vs armored cars and such? 

[EliteGrens]

Because they are down to 5% health when they run into one by accident.

[CafeMilani]

....cry more...

cmon, its weaker, more expensive and always gets destroyed by arty-.-
i played some games as ami yesterday and my ATGuns easily killed every axis tank (heavy or not) and raped PE HTs and ACs (i thought u wanted to buff the ACs armour that it can survive 2 ATGun shot but u just buffed brits...)

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Because they are down to 5% health when they run into one by accident.

From what, the Bomber Fairy?

[Golradaer]

ignore

[Malevolence]

My PaK solution -

Reduce line of sight while cloaked by around ten units or so.

No more PaKs in the frontline looking for tanks to kill. If that doesn't do it, some kind of "can't cloak while moving" or "uncloak after one shot" debuff can be applied to it afterwards.

[RikiRude]

I wonder if the devs find something wrong with paks, or if they just can't decide how to balance them?

[Warlight]

Why nerf the pak, when we could make a suitable counter by buffing something else slightly?

[NightRain]

I've never had any problems with PAk when I decided to play as Amis in old retail. When they shot my ATG I just pulled it backward to another place, problem solved.

A lot of people here complains about the cloak, it gives PAK its own advantage where US gets AP rounds, the price for AP rounds isn't that high either. Even if it ends up being sometimes 1 use ability only it still deals massive damage when hits.

If PAK was visiable it'd be ATG vs ATG fight nontheless. I've watched several replays here for boredom and always when amis saw a PAK decloaked they aimed their 57mms to shoot it and believe me those PAKs didn't last long under that fire it was quite hilarious indeed. Calliopes really sweep the ground and cleans all PAKs from the area where the missiles lands if there is any pak that is.

If you guys hate PAK so much people always could try it without its cloak and see how long it survives. Someone can always test it out. A more expensive gun without cloak- well I don't know it might be fun to test it out and see if how it works. Few games with a pak without its cloak.

I've never seen 5.0cm gun as a big problem, it locks area down like 57 does. One thing I've learned from other games is to keep the gun moving never just leave it on one spot. Even PAK needs to be moved after it has fired few times because that place will be shelled to hell afterwards if there are any artillery pieces on the field. Though, I mainly plays as Axis anyway I find both PAK and 57 quite Even in their own ways. Both guns operate differently. PAK is to lockdown and ambush where 57 is to disable and counter heavier tanks.
Only a fool runs a tank to a area without scouting it

[Schultz]

Yep i agree with speedy here, paks fine.

[Sach]

I don't really care either way but if they are to be changed I think the 35 sight range while cloaked would be the best way to go.

[gamesguy2]

A lot of misconceptions here.

First of all, paks outdps 57mm, not the other way around.  They have the same penetration against similar targets, and the pak outdps the 57mm by approximately 10%.

Secondly, cloak first strike bonus is like a super AP round shot that always hits.  Where as the 57mm has to PAY for AP rounds(which is only two shots), pak gets it for free every time it cloaks.  In addition, the cloaked shot has a large accuracy bonus, AP rounds do not.   On top of that, recrewed paks retain their cloak ability where as the AP rounds that you paid for died with your original 57 crew.