[US] The lovely Ranger discussion

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[Baine]

Here we go, Axis fanbois against Ally fanbois.

Rangers are insane at the moment. I don't see how making them cost nearly the same as KCH makes it balanced.
One Ranger squad can take on 2 KCH squads and honestly, that's bullsh*t.
4 Thompsons on 6 men > 3 STGs on 3 men.
We already talked about the fact that the firepower stays the same until half the ranger squad is killed, whereas the KCH loses firepower whenever 1 dies.

The Ranger can stay how they are, if you up the price, or if you reduce the number of Thompsons to 3 or 2 per squad(and adjust the price). You should really know better than it is now.

I mean, Rangers can run through everything. They could before the Thompson upgrade, but at that time they couldn't cut everything down. Now they do and that is ridiculous.

Let's stay nice and calm, send your flames per PM, won't read it anyways

[nugnugx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QyYaPWasos


it's a trap !

[Mgallun74]

no

[Tymathee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QyYaPWasos


it's a trap !

best thing i've ever seen awesomeness.

back on topic. Rangers FTL

[Leafedge]

The only real problem is that they buffed the bazooka. 2 Rangers don't need to be able to kill a Panther in 2 volleys from the front. Vehicles used to be the best way to kill them. Now nothing works.

Yes, I realize the bazooka is shitty AT. But it is supposed to be, because the infantry that carry them are the toughest AI Inf in the game. If they have even any AT, they are great. If they have even decent AT, then they are either OP or so costly that they ruin your company, and neither should be the case.

[panzerjager1943]

We buffed the Zooka? When was this?

[Mgallun74]

The only real problem is that they buffed the bazooka. 2 Rangers don't need to be able to kill a Panther in 2 volleys from the front. Vehicles used to be the best way to kill them. Now nothing works.

Yes, I realize the bazooka is shitty AT. But it is supposed to be, because the infantry that carry them are the toughest AI Inf in the game. If they have even any AT, they are great. If they have even decent AT, then they are either OP or so costly that they ruin your company, and neither should be the case.

whatcha talking about willis???  if anything in the new patch the zook got nerfed a bit, not sure if it carried over to eirr but your statement is goober.

[Malevolence]

The only real problem is that they buffed the bazooka. 2 Rangers don't need to be able to kill a Panther in 2 volleys from the front. Vehicles used to be the best way to kill them. Now nothing works.

You have a 15% penetration rate on Panther front armor with bazookas, roughly. This goes down to a measly 11% with sideskirts attached, if I remember my numbers right. Bazookas never got a penetration bonus, and their damage has always been relatively high - it's just they don't penetrate very often.

[Leafedge]

That's another part of the problem, panzer, they make changes without saying anything. I guess that also answers Mgallun. EIRR buffed the zook out the ass, and even if Relic nerf it a bit, its still a lot better.

As for Mal...well, maybe I'm just an unlucky fucker. It's not like I've gotten to test it much since EiRR has been down for awhile.

[Warlight]

I took on some of RikiRudi's (sp?) vet ranger swarm the other day.  I mean... He didn't hav e the best allies, but his rangers didn't seem overpowered.  I beat 'em with a combination of Mp40 Volks and KCH, with the help of some MGs and a microed Ostwind.  Not all at once, but over the course of the battle.

I don't think they are too good.  Obviously they are going to roll light armor and vanilla infantry.  But anything at least as specialized as them will give them a run for their money.  

Next time you get hit by rangers, think about the curcumsatances of the battle.  Was it One Squad v One KCH, or two Squads of rangers.. Or did you get artied first or was there some ATG sniping.   In battle you'll focus on just one unit, but thier may have been other factors goin on.

Also, you don't have to sit and wait for the rangers to roll up on your guys, you can always run away, pull them into a trap.

Edit:
Oh, yes, I know about fire up.  But if they have to fireup because you pulled them into a trap.  Better to plan on them using it, rather then letting them use it at their leasure.  And if they do fire up they are probubly going to run away, still a victory in my book since you'll still gun a coupel down.

[Mgallun74]

I took on some of RikiRudi's (sp?) vet ranger swarm the other day.  I mean... He didn't hav e the best allies, but his rangers didn't seem overpowered.  I beat 'em with a combination of Mp40 Volks and KCH, with the help of some MGs and a microed Ostwind.  Not all at once, but over the course of the battle.

I don't think they are too good.  Obviously they are going to roll light armor and vanilla infantry.  But anything at least as specialized as them will give them a run for their money.  

Next time you get hit by rangers, think about the curcumsatances of the battle.  Was it One Squad v One KCH, or two Squads of rangers.. Or did you get artied first or was there some ATG sniping.   In battle you'll focus on just one unit, but thier may have been other factors goin on.

Also, you don't have to sit and wait for the rangers to roll up on your guys, you can always run away, pull them into a trap.

Edit:
Oh, yes, I know about fire up.  But if they have to fireup because you pulled them into a trap.  Better to plan on them using it, rather then letting them use it at their leasure.  And if they do fire up they are probubly going to run away, still a victory in my book since you'll still gun a coupel down.

was that last night? i was there, had my rangers out there too....  sucked out teammate was gone halfway thru the game.

[Malevolence]

That's another part of the problem, panzer, they make changes without saying anything. I guess that also answers Mgallun. EIRR buffed the zook out the ass, and even if Relic nerf it a bit, its still a lot better.

I think all they did was accidentally give handheld AT the world's best accuracy against AT guns.

As for Mal...well, maybe I'm just an unlucky fucker. It's not like I've gotten to test it much since EiRR has been down for awhile.

What you're probably thinking of is when they fight a panzer IV. They have about a 50% chance to penetrate a PIV, and they do some pretty serious damage every shot. A panther is basically immune, though, same for tiger/king tiger/other heavily armored vehicles on the front armor.

They will, however, always penetrate rear armor and always deal massive damage with a critical hit.

[Tymathee]

lol zooks awesome lmao hahahahahaha....

if they penetrate frontal armor on a panther somehow, they do massive damage yes, but thats only if. If you're dumb enough to have your side or rear somehow exposed to an incoming range team, you're fucked anyway.

Rangers aren't that awesome, there's a reason why I don't use them.

[Warlight]

Yea, last night, I mean I didn't feel like your guyses rangers were too OP.  

The Situation determines about 50% (or more even) of a units usefullness.  We axis had nice positions in buidings looking over a field, the rangers couldn't handle that.  It may have bed differant if you guys had pushed more into town,  there we a couple good flanks but ultimatle the rangers couldn't make any headway.

Same reason Paks are godly some times, and sometimes they are not.  

Before you can complain about balance to need to look at at least two things:

1st:  The Situation/Environment the units are in.

2nd:  They player using them, some people are expert Microers, one persons trash unit is another persons treasure.  

COH has many more factors that other RTS don't deal with on a regular basis, And personaly I don't think alot of players think about them.  They expect it to be Nice Rock/Paper/Scissors, and it most deffinatly isn't that.

[Mgallun74]

Yea, last night, I mean I didn't feel like your guyses rangers were too OP.  

The Situation determines about 50% (or more even) of a units usefullness.  We axis had nice positions in buidings looking over a field, the rangers couldn't handle that.  It may have bed differant if you guys had pushed more into town,  there we a couple good flanks but ultimatle the rangers couldn't make any headway.

Same reason Paks are godly some times, and sometimes they are not.  

Before you can complain about balance to need to look at at least two things:

1st:  The Situation/Environment the units are in.

2nd:  They player using them, some people are expert Microers, one persons trash unit is another persons treasure.  

COH has many more factors that other RTS don't deal with on a regular basis, And personaly I don't think alot of players think about them.  They expect it to be Nice Rock/Paper/Scissors, and it most deffinatly isn't that.

meh, rangers are my favorite to play with on game, Thompsons, Zook and Nades, deal with anything... i have 3 with XP over 70 so they are doing ok.

that game last night was pretty much done by time i got in there, Riki had his side controlled.. the new guy came out second and drove his stuff to same spot as Riki, which allowed you guys to take the bridge area and come behind them.. 9 min into game and it was over by time i got there.. the new guy should have taken or held the bridge area, but hey he is new, no worries... by time i got out there and tried to get over it was hopeless.. had a mark4 running around in my backfield i had to chase with rangers and 57mm and so on..     think the coolest part was near the end, had my howi out, and somebody ran 2 squads of volks with mp40s up at my rangers, and i howied them at like point blank range... 1 squad dead in 1 shot other dude ran off.. that was about the fun for me lol

[gamesguy2]

Rangers and airborne also just got nerfed from the fireup exhaustion thing relic put in.

[Schultz]

Rangers are uber. Give them smgs, watch them vet up. Then watch them become unkillable.

[RikiRude]

Rangers are pretty great, especially if you are able to bring them to a triage every time they take some damage. As long as there are 3 guys in teh squad, and they have thomspsons you can keep them on for a hell of a long time.

I have to apologize for raging that game, but it was my first game back into EiRR, and to get someone as bad as the guy we got on our team was just incredibly frustrating, cromwell with 3 sapper start? WTF! Plus a ranger squad that was on it's way to being vet 3 got killed because there were MGs and troops lined on my retreat path 

Anyways, rangers are pretty powerful if you use them right like anything. And rangers with tommy guns are brutal, but they are pretty costly. 330 MP 80 muni, plus 140 muni for tommies, and imo they NEED tommy guns to keep their worth on the battlefield. but they are great against PE light vehicles, and do decent enough against tanks, and absolutely rape infantry. I haven't had a chance to see how much exhaustion hurts, but if you don't manage to make your escape to hide behind of something I bet your rangers get raped.

[Tymathee]

Rangers are uber. Give them smgs, watch them vet up. Then watch them become unkillable.

sounds like kch, and stormtroopers...

how unkilalble are kch? i fird a priest shot on one squad today, two rounds, direct center of squad, vet 2 kch, and it took out one squad member each, that doesnt happen with a ranger squad.

[Killer344]

*sigh*