[PE] PzIV Infantry Support Tank

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[Staplerfahrer]

This tank is not worth 360 Manpower, 265 Fuel, and 12 population.  There are no ifs, ands, or buts.

Either it needs a buff or one of the above numbers needs to drop to an appropriate level.

For perspective;

Sherman - 395 MP, 250 F, 12 pop
Cromwell - 370 MP, 220 F, 12 pop
PzIV - 400 MP, 260 F, 12 pop
StuG - 300 MP, 165 F, 8 pop
StuH - 380 MP, 180 F, 8 pop

[BigDick]

since you have to pay 170 fuel for each crappy at gun you cannot afford tanks anyway

just do not buy that crap

but i agree against all other medium tanks this thing is a joke and even more expensive

its biggest problem is its (un)lockdown time and its crappy range

[Malevolence]

Yeah I would definitely reduce fuel cost, but maybe make manpower cost up a little bit. 370 manpower and 200-220 fuel would be good?

[Draken]

Pop down to 10 and it will be more usefull.

[Staplerfahrer]

since you have to pay 170 fuel for each crappy at gun you cannot afford tanks anyway

Its sad when tanks are the hard counter to your anti tank guns.

[Killer344]

meh, fuck p4s ist and their silly range, wirbles for their price/pop cap own.

[Schultz]

Pop down to 10 and it will be more usefull.

Yeah something like that, maybe 11 (like ostwind), and lower cost.
But whats really bad is range, it sucks so much. I'd trade lockdown for more range anyday.

[Staplerfahrer]

Why is the IST more expensive than the StuH but nowhere near as effective?

If you drop it to the same costs as the StuH, it might be worth fielding over an Armored Car.

[Tymathee]

ist is more effective than stuh because it has turret, faster rof, and is more accurate than a stuh.

if ou put an ist as the same as a stuh thats insane. i for one love ist's and do very well with them.

[spinn72]

i think you have to buff the P4 to make it any useful.  Infantry pretty much Circlestrafe it all the time and it's way to slow to get out of the way of At guns.

I think maybe a small speed buff but most likely fire rate buff (so you don't have to lock it down every time and wait 5 seconds or so for them to run away) or accuracy buff will be useful.

Either make it good or make it cheap.

Can i also bring the Hetzer in this??  It's currently 400MP/245 F/10 pop and it's probably a worse tank than the stug or stuh.  The hetzer needs a small buff too, since it's the only half normal tank they have besides the panther.

[Tymathee]

^ are you k idding? its the same speed as a regular p4. and if you get circle strafed by infantry, you're doing something wrong, then again, you can practically circle straft any tank with at infantry if the person using the tank sucks.

[Killer344]

Good luck trying to circle strafe a sherman/p4/cromwell, on the other hand if you are moving the p4 ist its accuracy sucks and if you lock it down you´ll get circle strafed.

[gamesguy2]

Can i also bring the Hetzer in this??  It's currently 400MP/245 F/10 pop and it's probably a worse tank than the stug or stuh.  The hetzer needs a small buff too, since it's the only half normal tank they have besides the panther.

Hetzer is an excellent tank.  Long range and vision(50 range/45 vision), 2nd best frontal armor in the game, relatively fast, with a decent main gun and a decent MG.

[RikiRude]

hetzers rule! they snipe infantry like crazy, and take them down with the MG. i use the hetzer the opposite way i use a stug. the stug you use like an AT gun that can happen to shoot infantry, I use the hetzer to mainly take out infantry, but i can also shoot tanks and light vehicles.

anyways, i rarely see the IST get used to the point where it's useful. i mean if there were more light vehicles i think it would be more useful. but the lock down takes far too long, and that's the only time it shines, is locked down near a blob.

[Pak75mm]

completely useless. I tried to use em. I had one at Vet 3 mind you but i had to baby it. The range is atrocious and honestly everything penetrates skirts or no skirts. Its not like the vCoH version the EiR PzIV IST is retarded child.

1. Shit range. RRs and Zooks out range you lol. Fail.

2. Skirts are just a waste and so is the MG. You are better off just saving that muni for other things

3. Horrific penetration! an M8 is more of danger to german tanks then an IST is to allied tanks.

4. Lockdown. Simply put.....nerfed batted like an abused retarded child. Seriously shit is borderline Child support services knocking down your door. It take forever to activate and whats worse it take just as long to come out of it. DONT CALL IT LOCKDOWN! oh no! call it Martyr of Mohammed lockdown to 1000 virgins, cuz once its on lockdown dont expect it to live. Heck once you know its gonna die, might as well activate lockdown and pray it takes out a hedge or wall.

[gamesguy2]

completely useless. I tried to use em. I had one at Vet 3 mind you but i had to baby it. The range is atrocious and honestly everything penetrates skirts or no skirts. Its not like the vCoH version the EiR PzIV IST is retarded child.

The vCoH p4 is exactly the same as the EIR version.

Its worth noting that the vCoH p4 costs about as much fuel as a M10.

[NightRain]

Why not give P4 IST a Upgun upgrade that will turn it to a normal Wehr P4? I mean in the World Editor thingy there was a PE P4 from the mission. Why not give it?

[VariantThirteen]

Broadly PE suck for two reasons and two reasons only - their units cost too much, and their units take up too much pop.

The IST is no exception to these two rules.

[Schultz]

What variant said and also i'd like to suggest lockdown would change to how the rest of Eir abilities work. You use it and then have to wait 3-4 minutes  untill you can use it again, but you'll be able to unlock rather instantly.

Why not give P4 IST a Upgun upgrade that will turn it to a normal Wehr P4? I mean in the World Editor thingy there was a PE P4 from the mission. Why not give it?

This, along with all the talk about what pe lack in comparison to the other factions this is one of the things that scream for obviousness. No middle tank, like sherman, regular p4, cromwell, churchill.
I mean you think panzer elite and then you say wtf right ?

[VariantThirteen]

Having tried to use the IST again just like the old days, I've decided this isn't right. Two fully upgraded PIVs will lose to two Piats and a Stuart. I would expect 24 pop, 700mp, 260 munis, 530 fuel of dedicated anti infantry and softcounter to light tank/vehicles to fucking roll through some second line Builder/AT units and a light tank. PIV's just plain fucking suck at the moment.

PIVs are meant to be PE's shock unit for rolling through AT infantry using Skirts. They can't do that. In fact, largely because of this, PE don't have a decent stalemate breaker, and are reduced to cheese suicide flanks with InfHTs loaded with either Assault Grens or TB's.

Tanks are meant to hardcounter them, ATGs softcounter, but AT Infantry minces them at the moment. RRs always did, PIATs now do too, Zookas and stickies still sort of suck. Basically, they're just way too easy to counter, and far too difficult to use effectively. Even if they were cheaper and cost less pop they would just be another PE unit that doesn't quite have a niche it fulfills properly.