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Soldier Armor...
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Topic: Soldier Armor... (Read 7431 times)
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Soldier Armor...
«
on:
May 02, 2009, 07:07:52 pm »
Was there a reason the soldier armor change was reverted?
My PGs have 55 hp and melt in 2 seconds against flamers again...
All the old balance problems with soldier armor just came back.
Logged
panzerjager1943
EIR Veteran
Posts: 659
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #1 on:
May 02, 2009, 07:18:50 pm »
Try a Light Vehicle for support. I'm sure every PE player has plenty of Armoured Cars; Infantry Halftracks and hell, even Scout Cars, can stop engineers.
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #2 on:
May 02, 2009, 07:21:34 pm »
Quote from: panzerjager1943 on May 02, 2009, 07:18:50 pm
Try a Light Vehicle for support. I'm sure every PE player has plenty of Armoured Cars; Infantry Halftracks and hell, even Scout Cars, can stop engineers.
I already use light vehicles for everything, this change will have a minimal impact on me.
So its the position of the balance team that its ok that an entire faction's infantry is more or less useless unmounted due to its advantage in other areas? I just want to clarify.
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BigDick
Guest
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #3 on:
May 03, 2009, 01:39:18 am »
there are some bigger problems oon soldier armored infantry (PE, british)
why the hell a tommie squad has 100% more health of a panzergren squad and costs only 50% more on same armor type with better upgrades? Same with popcap 100% more health on 25% more popcap!
rifleman the similar...100% more health 25%more pop for 14% more price
they don't have soldier armor but soldier armor give no 100% boost to equalize that
Logged
Lt_Apollo
EIR Veteran
Posts: 380
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #4 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:12:43 am »
wtf, PGs just became an effective unit now you remove that by reverting them to there crapy non effective state. sory for the outburst but it was changed for a reasion.
Logged
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #5 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:28:27 am »
Riflemen health = 55 per man.
PG health = 55 per man, soldier armor type.
Tommie health = 65 per man, soldier armor type.
I don't see 100 percent more health anywhere.
If you're going to compare squad healths, then :
AB squad - 420 health.
KCH squad - 270 health + elite armor type!
Commandos - 390 health + soldier armor type!
150 extra health on AB squad compared to KCH, and KCH cost so much more than AB!!!!
120 extra health on commandos compared to KCH, and KCH cost around the same as commandos!
NERF AB + commandos NAO!!!! KCH UP!!!!
Seriously Big, lie down before you hurt yourself.
The soldier armor revert is indeed a very bad thing. Flamers will eat them apart in mere seconds, tanks will have the best time ever kiting them, not to mention mortars and other artilery isntantly gibbing them by hitting somewhere 10 km away from the infantry.
PE will frankly have to resort to pure vehicle spam - there'll be no more point in infantry, other than for capping and repair(both can be done by other vehicles, btw), and to sink the overdue manpower in. Panzerjagers post only supports this view, to be honest(sorry if it seems offensive, pzjg) - spam light vehicles and your infantry may seem useful as a meat shield.
Brits... well, they'll frankly be back to square 2(two, not one). Their infantry will become rather subpar again(Agreeably, they were a bit overkill for the past while, needed around 5 HP per man nerf on all of their infantry), and the brits will have to resort to emplacement and tank spam.
Kangaroos will probably alleviate this, somewhat, but I just don't know for now, as it will rightfully be nerfed before it's implemented in EiR...
Brits lack breakthrough units again now - no more artilery for them, if you're not RCA, and the AVRE at 135 seconds... is still frankly overkill long. Commandos, having become almost useful with normal armor, won't get near an HMG to nade it fast enough with soldier armor again. So, the only stalemate breaker is the RCA for the brittish.
Mobile AT? Well, I guess with sappers havign their armor type reverted they're no good against tanks again - too easily killable. The 6 pdr is a welcome addition, though, replaces the now useless tetrarch as an alternative to PIATs.
Least the brits can hold territory now - what with the new HMG, though moving the mortar pit to RSE will rather impair that - not by too much, though. I hope.
That is, at least, my views on what's going to happen.
The number of PE players will start deteriorating again, the brits as well, till it's america vs wehrmacht again, with the occasional nubbie going for either brits or PE. I'm gonna stay PE, just because I like the kettenkrad, but nothing's making me go back to brits now. I don't want to rely solely on camping to win.
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Schultz
EIR Veteran
Posts: 679
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #6 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:37:07 am »
This is more than evident. I fully agree. PE suck..
Theres a reason halftracks work in vcoh panzerjager. Reinforcing and fast repairing..
P.S glad you could see it for yourself mysta
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #7 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:39:11 am »
Schultz, contrary to what you believe, I am not an allied fanboy
.
That means, yes, I can see problems from both sides
.
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Lt_Apollo
EIR Veteran
Posts: 380
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #8 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:41:51 am »
i just dont get it. we reach a point where infentry for the PE become viable and the go ahead and nerf them, why? now the PE just lost any sort of combat effectivness they had. i personaly love PE but these changes well they are frankly imo BS.
if your going to give PE soldier armour BOOST THERE HEATH. 55hp per man on a 3 man squad (4 man if upgraded) How Is this even compariable to anything anymore. with PE forced to rely on veichles it basicly removes all versitility from the army and forces a single playstyle of light vechle spam that while diffrent is a HANDICAP in every balanced game.
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EIRRMod
Administrator / Lead Developer
Posts: 11009
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #9 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:42:18 am »
It is being looked into
But basically, Brits or PE cant just wade into the fight anymore and expect to win.
(Actually, they cant cower behind cover or ANYTHING now and win either... but hey...)
Please post some examples / observations you guys have had on the revert for the PE and Brit troops.
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Quote from: brn4meplz
Shit I'm pretty sure you could offer the guy a cup of coffee and he'd try to kill you with the mug if you forgot sugar.
Quote from: tank130
That's like offering Beer to fuck the fat chick. It will work for a while, but it's not gonna last. Not only that, but there is zero motivation for the Fat chick to loose weight.
Quote from: tank130
Why don't you collect up your love beads and potpourri and find something constructive to do.
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #10 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:44:52 am »
2 flamer engies, costing less than a 4 man Assault gren squad, taking up 1 more popcap, and having twice the availability, would instantly rape them even before the soldier armor revert.
You really want me to post an observation of death within 0.5 seconds instead of 2 for the assault gren?
Logged
Schultz
EIR Veteran
Posts: 679
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #11 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:49:51 am »
Oh i never believed that myst..
Anyway, my other issue/observation having to do with PE is halftracks getting 2 shot down by atgs. I dunno if this has changed in a hot-fix. But yeah, how can you have your "mobile mg" fight on the front along your pzgrens when an atg can wtfpwn it instantly. How can you have proper support of your troops ?
And look at the at capabilities of pe now. Tank busters drop like flies.
Marders get killed by atgs and circle strafed by everything. You'd have to rely to panthers for decent at.
I'd say if atgs can kill marders so easilly fix the accuracy of marders so that they can effectively retaliate.
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #12 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:51:53 am »
My marder killed an ATG after getting stickied and shot at by the ATG first yesterday
.
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #13 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:56:42 am »
Quote from: BigDick on May 03, 2009, 01:39:18 am
there are some bigger problems oon soldier armored infantry (PE, british)
why the hell a
tommie squad
has 100% more health of a
panzergren squad
and costs only 50% more on same armor type with better upgrades? Same with popcap 100% more health on 25% more popcap!
rifleman the similar...100% more health 25%more pop for 14% more price
they don't have soldier armor but soldier armor give no 100% boost to equalize that
Quote from: Mysthalin on May 03, 2009, 03:28:27 am
Riflemen health = 55 per man.
PG health = 55 per man, soldier armor type.
Tommie health = 65 per man, soldier armor type.
pleaaaaassseee go to an optican of your choice and get glasses
pzgren
squad
= 165Health cost=175MP Armor=soldier pop=4
tommi
squad
= 325 Health cost=265MP Armor=soldier pop=5
rifle
squad
= 330 Health cost=200MP Armor=infantry pop=5
and now do the math
Logged
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #14 on:
May 03, 2009, 03:57:52 am »
Quote
AB
squad
- 420 health.
KCH squad - 270
health
+ elite armor type!
Commando squad - 390
health
+ soldier armor type!
150 extra health on AB squad compared to KCH, and KCH cost so much more than AB!!!!
120 extra health on commandos compared to KCH, and KCH cost around the same as commandos!
NERF AB + commandos NAO!!!! KCH UP!!!!
Selective quoting's a bitch, isn't it bigdick?
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #15 on:
May 03, 2009, 04:00:05 am »
Quote from: Mysthalin on May 03, 2009, 03:57:52 am
Quote
AB
squad
- 420 health.
KCH squad - 270
health
+ elite armor type!
Commando squad - 390
health
+ soldier armor type!
150 extra health on AB squad compared to KCH, and KCH cost so much more than AB!!!!
120 extra health on commandos compared to KCH, and KCH cost around the same as commandos!
NERF AB + commandos NAO!!!! KCH UP!!!!
Selective quoting's a bitch, isn't it bigdick?
learn2read bob, you mixed in airbornes kch whatever
titel is soldier armor
and you quoted me where i compared pzgrens to tommis and rifles
Logged
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #16 on:
May 03, 2009, 04:02:19 am »
you don't get it, do you? never compare squad health, compare entity health, but not squad health. Frankly, there can be a squad of 30 men, each with 10 HP. They'll die horribly.
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #17 on:
May 03, 2009, 04:06:00 am »
actually it is the other way
but yeah i've to teach you some math
it doesnt matter if a weapon do 10 damage or 150 damage than they need to get hit 30 times to die
same to "headshots" or splash
small squads are always in a disadvantage
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #18 on:
May 03, 2009, 05:09:01 am »
frankly, having a squad of 30 men each with 10 health would be hardly as useful as a 6 man squad, each with 50 health, with the obscene ammount of splash damage weapons and automatic weapons this game has. If this game only had sniper rifles, then yes, it would be rather badass to have a low-health-per-man and high unit size squad, but right now - send a G43 squad at a 30 man 10 health per man squad, and the huge squad will get raped within seconds. If you don't believe me, test it via corsix mod studio.
Frankly, my comparisson of KCH to AB is quite correct.
Frankly, I don't know why I'm arguing with you.
*End derail*
Logged
Killer344
The Inquisitor
Posts: 6904
Re: Soldier Armor...
«
Reply #19 on:
May 03, 2009, 07:25:19 am »
...tbh, I give a shit about this change, 99% of the times, I don´t use my PE infantry, although, their infantry could use a pop cap reduction to stand a chance...
Logged
Quote from: brn4meplz on April 18, 2013, 01:23:05 am
If I get shot and it's a gay medic fixing me up, he's not gonna be fondling my balls while he does it. You can't patch a chest wound and suck a cock at the same time.
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