MG fixing...

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[Osprey]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had problems with how difficult it has become to use MGs in buildings.

The 2 sec increase in moving is OK in itself. It's realistic, and it give infantry a fighting chance. However, it's let down by one crucial factor, CoH's AI system. If you set up an AT gun, you tell it where to point. If you set up a Mortar Pit, MG Bunker and such, you tell them where to point. Put an MG into a house, and suddenly the soldiers become utter morons (probably distracted by all the doilies).

A case in point, I put an MG into a house on Carentan, the one on the right at the edge of the top right field and a key defensive point against the first wave of attackers (we were playing Axis attack mode (And yes Tymathee, people do still play those)). My AT was aimed, Sniper cloaked, my mortar ready to hit units emerging from the fog of war and Rifles covering the flank of the house.

The weak link? The MG team decided the enemy were most likely to attack from the direction of the allied spawn. Clearly they expected some kind of sneaky double crossing Brits to come up behind them, or perhaps it was the window closest to the door and the MG Sgt was too tired to carry the gun into the back of the house. Either way, when a motor bike came past to hunt my Sniper, the MG was too late moving to inflict even a single round on the motorised bandit.

Fortunately for myself, my micro skills have improved considerably in the last few weeks, and I kept my sniper safe for long enough that the AT gun eventually scored a direct hit and the bike disintegrated. My MG by this time came round to the back of the house to trade shots with a Grenadier squad laying down LMG fire in the direction of my sniper, and the axis player backed off...

At this point, the first Nebel strike came in and hit the rear of the house, removing the floor and wall from all but two windows. Naturally, the MG relocated to a window away from the damage, once again watching his spawn for treacherous commonwealth allies. In my opinion, there was no reason he, and the one remaining MG team trooper, couldn't take up these two vacant windows, and maintain the direction of their aim.

Naturally, another attack came, and I was forced to retreat the sniper without any anti-infantry cover against the incoming LMG and MP40 combination (My rifles had been halved in number at this point due to various sources (not least an enemy sniper killed just afterwards by a beautifully placed and extremely lucky AT gun shot). My position weakened, I was driven back further into the town, at which point a combination of artillery and assault Stormtroopers came into play (Sorry for killing your Vet 3 Stormies with my Vet 1 BARs Dnicee, but I did vow revenge after you 'shreked my Calliope a few games back) and the game played out to an axis victory.


My issue however, is that without being able to dictate the direction they set up in buildings, or giving them a force fire at ground option to force the team to relocate, MG teams in buildings are now severely hampered.

It's not the 2 sec delay, it's the fact that the team will inevitably set up in the wrong place due to poor CoH AI not considering factors when setting up the teams, such as direction of likely attack (even if it's just based on the direction of enemy base/spawn), and best areas of attack by enemies (such as aiming at a large areas of ground with cover, rather than at the building across the alley less than 3 meters away). Thus requiring those extra 2 seconds to get into firing position usually allows enemy targets to close the gap enough to assault with grenades or demo charges, or to move across the intended covered area unhindered before the MG will respond.
I should also point out at this point, that when MGs do get into the correct position just in time to fire for a couple of seconds, the length of firing time becomes critical, as an MG42 may then go on to suppress the unit before it gets out of arc and requires another long set up time, whilst the .303 Cal and .30 Cal suffer from poorer suppression abilities compared to their Wermacht counterpart.

Without some kind of ability to get the MG team to set up where you want them in a building, I think the increased 2 second delay is overly dampening on what should be a powerful crowd-control weapon.


P.S. This is not a post about how Axis or Allies are OP, or why this MG is OP and too cheap compared to that MG which is UP and overpriced. Nor is it a post about any other elements of balancing between factions, this is about all MGs, so please, if you wish to contribute to the argument case, try to do it from a less subjective, neutral position.

[Bubz]

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=9187.0

Bubz the change is a relic change, effective use of the mg42 requires a little more tha leaving one on a flank or un supported.

We are looking at the change made by relic and considering it for its application to EIR, currently there are effective counters to british units and with changes in the mix any "percieved injustice" will be looked at as well.

I am sorry for your poem.

[panzerjager1943]

Great that you feel that way. However there is nothing we can do about it.

[Baine]

Yeah as panzerjager stated, they can't do much. It's a RELIC thing. They probably got something fucked up with units in buildings.
CoH forums everywhere are full of the same posts. And you are right. Still gotta wait for Relic to fix it.

[Draken]

There is only one solution, get out and get in until your MG will be on the right direction...

[31stPzGren]

There is only one solution, get out and get in until your MG will be on the right direction...

Thats an ingenius solution.

[chefarzt]

Just put enough mgs in to cover all directions.Like 3 per house.

[Unkn0wn]

Just put enough mgs in to cover all directions.Like 3 per house.

You're a tactical genious .

[Akranadas]

The way around this is to manual target the MG at the enemy as soon as you see them, even if they aren't in the HMGs range. THis is why scouting for HMGs is a lot more important

[Leafedge]

The problem is not the 2 second delay on the MG's. The problem is the infinite delay on the MG's. Sometimes they just never turn. Ever. I watch them sit and get gunned down from the opposite side of a house by rifle fire, while they sit observing the scenery on the opposite side. This can go on for 30 seconds straight, with no effort made by the MG to relocate. Whatever Relic did, it isn't working properly. The delay sometimes works, but most often is way more than 2 seconds. It's sad and stupid but the solution is to not use MG's in houses anymore. Keep them mobile, keep them with your base infantry and use it to support. Or just don't use.

[Bubz]

Because you have to click on the rifles selecting the mg.

[Killer344]

Neither that works sometimes bubz.

[Bubz]

Probably because they are out of view or changed house side.

[overfreeze222]

Is there w way to code in something like a "face this way" or something? in men of war u press a button and the squad turns. u relocate in this by holding rite mouse button. is there a way to have this happen in a building, maybe say, if u LMB click on a house then RMB click in the area u want it to watch, the MG (and other units in the house) will face that way?

[31stPzGren]

Or simply flatten every building (particularly the church) with an AT gun when idling and deploy your mg on the ground.

[Unkn0wn]

particularly the church

Atheist.

Is there w way to code in something like a "face this way" or something?

As said earlier it's all hardcoded so not much we can do .

[Killer344]

particularly the church

Atheist.

Hypocrite, we all hate the church.