The AI

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[Mysthalin]

Flashpoint, all units, excluding the panther and M10 now charge the enemy like retards when you give an attack order. Shreks, LMGs you name it. Frankly, you can be at point blank range, if you give an attack order to a shrek, he'll still try to charge the enemy rather than shoot at him. Pressing h all the time has gotte nannoying.

[Killer344]

They always charged like retards if you gave them an attack order.

[Malevolence]

Oh, I forgot to mention, "only" 200 ping? Unless you're playing with StGMorellooo and his russian gaming crew you aren't going to HAVE 200 ping.

And if you think ".2" seconds is a big deal, your reaction time is roughly 200 ms, the same as the high end for normal gaming ping.

[EscforrealityTLS]

Actually a lot of Games have a player up around 200. I've had plenty of perfectly functioning games with people up around 400.

[Tymathee]

well thats ur problem^^ just press H and u'll be fine.

did you read the initial post? I am pressing halt.

and it's not before the Tov patch that this happened, this happened after the 2.5 patch or whatever it was called that we'd been waiting 100 years for. What I don't understand is, that there's an attack move button on the bar right? Where if you tell your unit to move somewhere, if it runs across the enemy on the way, it will engage it. Before 2.5, I could tell my guy to run across the map and if it ran into any enemyu units, it'd just by pass it, now, it seems like the attack move is on by default. I've had my m10's stop to fire at infantry when i want to tell it to chase after a tank. I don't have time for constantly micro when i sometimes have to micro 3, 4 or 5 units at once.

[Two]

Oh, I forgot to mention, "only" 200 ping? Unless you're playing with StGMorellooo and his russian gaming crew you aren't going to HAVE 200 ping.

And if you think ".2" seconds is a big deal, your reaction time is roughly 200 ms, the same as the high end for normal gaming ping.

Morelloo isnt russian

And pings upto 450 tend to be fine i find, over that and there will be some lag.

[Malevolence]

He isn't? Oh shit, no that was SoVHEBomb

[DuckOfDoom]

Malevolence, your post is a terrible and obvious troll but I will bite:

Every single infantry unit takes "attack" as an order to charge the enemy to point blank range, then fire. LMGs, shreks, PIATs - you name it, everything will try to charge, defying logic, into point blank range to die horribly. Relic TOV team - thank you for your bugs, we love you for it.

They all try to go to "optimal" range, usually long range followed by an advance as the combat continues.

Some units like the M10 will get to optimal (long) range and then decelerate like with the halt command, making them fly another 200 feet right into the front hull plate of that panther and gets jabbed in the eye by the gun barrel. The key is to just move them manually rather than use the attack order, then tell them to attack once they're already in range so they don't have to move.

No, the "key" here is that Relic cant code for fucking shit to save their lives. There is no reason a unit should be forced into point blank range EITHER by the virtue of decelerating OR by the virtue of having the AI be DUMB enough to drive right up to the target, and the public should not be accepting that as a standard, whether on the basis that it takes, ahahaha, "skill", to continuously spam right click orders under the tanks threads (like Leaf suggested) to stop the tank or whether the public just accepts that Relic cant code. This is sub par interface design, period. You dont design a general, most accessible attack order so that the game interprets it 100% of the time as a very specific close range move and shoot action. A good design decision dictates that the interface should associate most common button presses with most common commands. In CoH, most of the time I want my units  to engage the enemy by moving into their optimal range and start firing, so that is what right click attack should do.

I like the interface, it's both intuitive and simple as well as useful.

I think you misunderstand me. The interface is intuitive and simple, but its too simple. That is what I mean here. In the game where cover and positioning plays such a huge part you cant simply do with move/attack/halt/retreat orders. I am not saying that there should be buttons like "find cover" or anything even remotely like that, but there should be at least the option to choose between close/medium/long attack range, and the option to choose whether to chase the target unit, chase a unit within a specific area or to simply hold ground and not move at all. Its not like I am talking about something incomprehensibly complex, as you might have heard of another relic game called DAWN OF WAR which has those EXACT features on its squad control interface.

No, a reverse button on the tank would have you bitching about having to put it in reverse mode before ordering it to go anywhere if you want it to reverse. Simply clicking behind it is a lot easier and more obvious than stupid ass extra buttons on the interface you already claim is too complicated.

I never claimed the interface is complicated. I said it was terribly designed. And no, a reverse button would be awesome. You see, as a personal preference I generally dont want my units to show any initiative. If I am telling a tank to move 5 feet back, I want it to move exactly 5 feet back and not turn around, move 5 feet at slightly higher speed, and turn around again. In the game, the only way to tell a tank to move 5 feet back is to click 5 feet behind him and then pray to the cruel AI gods so a goddamn panther tank doesn't accidentally bump into a young fir tree and decides to turn all the way round while trying to avoid it. In general, it is a very, very bad idea to leave anything in the hands of the AI, even the simplest of actions. The AI is governed by a computer which can only do what you tell him, not what you mean. Unfortunately, the AI uses someone elses logic (ie the programmers) to interpret what YOU mean by issuing an order. The main point of the interface in a RTS should be to give the player maximum control over his units (ie like in Sins Of The Solar Empire), and not simplicity. I mean, its not even simplicity we are talking about, how hard can it be to make use of 1 (one) extra button? If some foaming starcraft fanboy cant deal with it because its too complicated, he can go fuck himself all the way to south korea.

Option 1) Put sniper on hold fire, wait for enemy sniper, put sniper on free fire. Sniper will priority target the enemy sniper if it's in range.

- except that would once again leave the sniper in the hands of the incompetent AI, who will need at least some time to either acquire its target and consult its whimsical target priority list, by which time the firing sniper would have re cloaked and your sniper will end up shooting some other unit, exposing himself. Hold/open fire trick will only work if your sniper is looking DIRECTLY at the enemy sniper, since target priority seems to only work in a units cone of fire.

Option 2) Wait for the enemy sniper to shoot, then right click him.

- see my point about the lag. Beside, I thought I was playing a STRATEGY GAME and not a pixel hunting adventure.

The system encourages better micro, which is the point of a real time tactics game. Focus fire on the units you want to shoot - it's a game with interactivity, not movie fun time sit back and relax to eat popcorn.

The system as it is does not encourage micro, the system encourages shift ques of the same command or button/right click spams for the games pathing/targeting/cover system to process your order in a favorable way. Its like giving your units an order, then rolling the dice to see what they will actually do.

More annoying buttons to fix a problem only two or three units suffer from.

Ok, if you are so annoyed about adding more buttons why not make the interface customizable to best fit the players own style? Oh wait, that would be a GOOD design decision. Also its worth pointing out that its more than " two or three units"

Your unit is now running after the enemy when they move rather than staying in cover where you put them, congratulations your idea is obnoxious to the player.

See my point about dawn of war and hold ground/chase stances.

A game is fun because it is interactive, not because you put on autopilot and watch the AI fight itself.

I am talking about making the interactivity more accessible to the player, more under the players control. As it is, the game is actually LESS interactive because its not interacting with the players the way most players want it to.

"micro faggotry" is how you place your units, and keep them in the right place throughout the engagement. This is not barbie's fun time adventure where you watch barbie ride a pony around, this is a game where you move your units properly to make them be most effective.

Ugh. Bad troll, 1/5 stars

Somebody sucks at moving units, it seems. I may need to call the waaaahmbulance.

How can you suck at PUSHING BUTTONS? That is like saying that someone sucks at rolling dice.

[Tymathee]

^ Agreed

[Draken]

Not read you last post, but to that thing about turning units instead of just drive backward . Relic could solve it by adding hotkey on that, or very fast double click, which will stop tanks from turning (avabile in options).

Now all my micro is basicly dependent on 1-3 buttons, c, shift, alt, fast typing, my mouse on my new failure razor mouse pad (which makes random moves, so sometimes I missclick buttons, and units).

I love eir for mix of reflex (and deleting the boring teching), strategic decisions before battle (creating your company), and teamwork which is essential mix to win.

[EliteGrens]

shitf

I use that button alot too!

[AmPM]

If you are having AI trouble you really must suck at controlling units.

EIR removed half the problem of the AI (running out of cover to shoot), the rest of it is you not knowing the mechanics.

Tanks only turn around if you click to far, units only run off to attack if you issue an attack order without telling it what to do (either through placement or later movement). The only problem is collision forcing one soldier to move into the open occasionally.

I think I will just have to end this with a...

L2P

[Mysthalin]

Tanks turn around even if you click close-by, it depends on the angle rather than the distance, actualy.
A bigger problem is some units(particularly light vehicles) having a seizure if there's any piece of heavy cover within 10 metre radius before it stops vibrating and moves.

Also, infantry charging into StuG tracks for no reason(I had an entire ranger squad run(as in, fire up speed, no fire up used) into the ass of a stug when I clicked attack).

I could also mention happy M10 "I hate this wall" dances, the infamous panther "My ass is more juicy" manouvers and the ever so popular "I am tiger, I fear no tickling - my sides are made of steel".

Other popular hits include "Tetrarch won't kill hurt kitty-kats until all grenadiers are dead", "I feel like shooting this PzShrek at this rifleman instead of that sherman".

And last, but not least, "My name is clowncar, all my guyze go out the driver door, and not the back".

[AmPM]

Never had schreks attack infantry if I tell them to target a tank. As for Tetrarchs, for whatever reasons Relic saw fit to have them and Stuart target infantry over armor....god only knows why.

As for the Panther/Tiger dance, once you get the driving down they are pretty much fine.

AI only goes retarded around things it cannot crush when you set it a path that requires it to interact with said object.

[DuckOfDoom]

If you are having AI trouble you really must suck at controlling units.

EIR removed half the problem of the AI (running out of cover to shoot), the rest of it is you not knowing the mechanics.

Tanks only turn around if you click to far, units only run off to attack if you issue an attack order without telling it what to do (either through placement or later movement). The only problem is collision forcing one soldier to move into the open occasionally.

I think I will just have to end this with a...

L2P

The whole point of this is that those issues add nothing to the game except for frustration and the necessity to spam halt/last command over and over again. Sure, I can and do spam this in order to get my units to do what I want them to do most of the time, but seriously, fuck that. "Learning to play" should improve your strategy in playing the game, not fighting the goddamn interface or learning how to twist the engine/game mechanics in order to avoid AI problems. I don't have all those problems popping up all the time either, but one or two of those pop up literally every game, sometimes at critical moments. Mysthalin pretty much summed it up nicely above, the only thing i would have to add to that is when you tell a squad to get behind sandbags or some shit sometimes a couple of guys would stand outside and not get the green shield over their heads (indicating that they are not, in fact, in cover), so I would have to click over and over until the cover context sensitive system decides to place the entire fucking squad in cover.

[Malevolence]

Malevolence, your post is a terrible and obvious troll but I will bite:

No, your post is a fucking whine to the max level 99 and it's frankly stupid.

No, the "key" here is that Relic cant code for fucking shit to save their lives.

Flaming Relic....

There is no reason a unit should be forced into point blank range EITHER by the virtue of decelerating

You don't want realistic physics in your game, boo Relic, coding believable vehicle mass into their game!

OR by the virtue of having the AI be DUMB enough to drive right up to the target,

Want your MP40s to stay at long range? Vehicles fight from the most effective area for them, with as far as I can tell exception of the firefly, who thinks he can fight better at close range for some reason. That's a single bug out of dozens of vehicles, god forbid.

and the public should not be accepting that as a standard, whether on the basis that it takes, ahahaha, "skill", to continuously spam right click orders under the tanks threads to stop the tank or whether the public just accepts that Relic cant code.

You click once and it stops on a dime. That's been an obvious micro move since the game came out because it exploits movement mechanics.

Also, baww, Relic doing a good job coding vehicle mass into the game, pathetic.

This is sub par interface design, period.

No, it isn't. You have no idea what a "sub par" interface is. Maybe next you'll go blame Relic for the VERY MINOR pathing problems, because NO other game has THOSE.... no, wait, yes they do, and they're a lot worse than in this game.

You dont design a general, most accessible attack order so that the game interprets it 100% of the time as a very specific close range move and shoot action.

It doesn't.

A good design decision dictates that the interface should associate most common button presses with most common commands. In CoH, most of the time I want my units  to engage the enemy by moving into their optimal range and start firing, so that is what right click attack should do.

...

Yes it does in fact do exactly what you just described with exception of the Firefly tank.

I think you misunderstand me. The interface is intuitive and simple, but its too simple.

The interface is both simple and intuitive, the two perfect things for an RTS interface to be, and yet it's a sub par interface!

That is what I mean here. In the game where cover and positioning plays such a huge part you cant simply do with move/attack/halt/retreat orders.

I make do just fine and I'm high on all the ladders except British, obviously it works just fine for me. In fact, I wouldn't want any more buttons for anything because it's already complex enough as it is.

I am not saying that there should be buttons like "find cover" or anything even remotely like that, but there should be at least the option to choose between close/medium/long attack range,

I prefer to move the unit to the correct range manually so that it stays in cover like it's supposed to. Frankly a different range attack option is self-defeating in a game like this.

and the option to choose whether to chase the target unit, chase a unit within a specific area or to simply hold ground and not move at all.

Units don't really get "lured" in CoH, and if somebody does lure a squad, you really aren't paying attention. A guard stance, maybe, I can understand where you're coming from, but there's really no need to add another feature like this - the game is about tactical troop control, and you want to make the troops more autonomous, thus removing gameplay.

Its not like I am talking about something incomprehensibly complex, as you might have heard of another relic game called DAWN OF WAR which has those EXACT features on its squad control interface.

Dawn of War was also fucking terrible and I'm glad those features disappeared for CoH, but am sad they are missing in DoW 2, where the situation is different. You don't need "range stance" or "melee stance" for ranged only units, for instance.

I never claimed the interface is complicated. I said it was terribly designed. And no, a reverse button would be awesome.

The interface is fine, it is intuitive and simple, the paramount of RTS interfaces. A simple command results in a simple response when executed properly.

You see, as a personal preference I generally dont want my units to show any initiative. If I am telling a tank to move 5 feet back, I want it to move exactly 5 feet back and not turn around, move 5 feet at slightly higher speed, and turn around again. In the game, the only way to tell a tank to move 5 feet back is to click 5 feet behind him and then pray to the cruel AI gods so a goddamn panther tank doesn't accidentally bump into a young fir tree and decides to turn all the way round while trying to avoid it.

Don't bump your panther into a young fir tree, then? This sounds a lot like user error to me, albeit frustratingly easy to bunk user error.

In general, it is a very, very bad idea to leave anything in the hands of the AI, even the simplest of actions. The AI is governed by a computer which can only do what you tell him, not what you mean. Unfortunately, the AI uses someone elses logic (ie the programmers) to interpret what YOU mean by issuing an order. The main point of the interface in a RTS should be to give the player maximum control over his units (ie like in Sins Of The Solar Empire),

Alright I'm gonna stop that quote right there and tell you how you have very LITTLE control over your units in Sins of a Solar Empire compared to most RTS games with exception of strategic movement.

and not simplicity. I mean, its not even simplicity we are talking about, how hard can it be to make use of 1 (one) extra button? If some foaming starcraft fanboy cant deal with it because its too complicated, he can go fuck himself all the way to south korea.

And yet, a higher APM would fix every problem you're having, so it's no coincidence you seem to think Starcraft is stupid based on its fast APM count. If you are slow in a real time tactics game you lose, most especially when things don't go how you want them to go and can't correct for error in time. This leads to the belief that you should Have It Your Way like it's BK and the game should cater to your exact needs rather than a broader audience.

- except that would once again leave the sniper in the hands of the incompetent AI, who will need at least some time to either acquire its target and consult its whimsical target priority list,

Instantly*

by which time the firing sniper would have re cloaked and your sniper will end up shooting some other unit, exposing himself. Hold/open fire trick will only work if your sniper is looking DIRECTLY at the enemy sniper, since target priority seems to only work in a units cone of fire.

Target Priority works within the unit's search radius, which is bigger than its weapon range. Hold/open fire trick works the same way no matter where your sniper is. If the other sniper decloaks and recloaks after his first shot you may as well have been sitting there with your mouse poised right over the lil invisible bugger because there is literally no way to counter snipe on the first shot unless your sniper is already rifle up and looking at the guy from green cover.

- see my point about the lag. Beside, I thought I was playing a STRATEGY GAME and not a pixel hunting adventure.

No, you're playing a tactics game (especially so in EiR with a complete lack of strategic gameplay before implementation of the war map excluding company composition and capping sectors) which involves telling your units what to shoot, where, and at what time. Besides which, you are conflicting over whether you want your units to show initiative or not. Do you want them to fire at the enemy automatically or don't you? You can't have it both ways. Furthermore, I've never had trouble countersniping due to lag. If the game is laggy you have BULLET TIME to target the enemy sniper during, it extends the period you can countersnipe if anything.

The system as it is does not encourage micro, the system encourages shift ques of the same command or button/right click spams for the games pathing/targeting/cover system to process your order in a favorable way.

See: Micromanagement.

Its like giving your units an order, then rolling the dice to see what they will actually do.

The game is based on percentages, it's going to be unpredictable in the short run.

Ok, if you are so annoyed about adding more buttons why not make the interface customizable to best fit the players own style? Oh wait, that would be a GOOD design decision. Also its worth pointing out that its more than " two or three units"

Nonstandardized interface has never existed in RTS, you're expecting a company to innovate not only a cover system, squad mechanics, and things like critical hit table based unit death, but ALSO to make their interface completely user customizable? Methinks the lady doth protest too much. And no, it's only two or three units that have a consistent problem with running up into the gullet of another tank when they shouldn't, one of them is the firefly.

See my point about dawn of war and hold ground/chase stances.

Okay, it is now autofiring at a certain unit forever until you tell it to do something else. Oh, no, wait, that's target priority, your idea is the same thing as something that already exists in the game...

I am talking about making the interactivity more accessible to the player, more under the players control. As it is, the game is actually LESS interactive because its not interacting with the players the way most players want it to.

The more the game does things on its own (unit stances, firing range stances) the less the player has/gets to do. You're seeing it as "has to do", I'm seeing it as "gets to do". I don't want my units to go around fighting the war for me, I want to do it myself, which is why I love CoH to death and prefer it to every other RTS game I ever played. Starcraft is wonderful for what you are asking: units that do exactly what you tell them to, with sole exception of unit pathing (which is present in every other game) and I like Starcraft a lot, but CoH is better because I prefer unit micro to macro. You're proposing that we remove the micro, making the game... what, a movie? The interface is fine, it does exactly what it says it does. Learn to use it like I have and it'll be less obnoxious.

Ugh. Bad troll, 1/5 stars

"Micro faggotry" isn't? You hate micromanagement in a fucking RTS game?

How can you suck at PUSHING BUTTONS? That is like saying that someone sucks at rolling dice.

Well obviously you do or you wouldn't be complaining about it...

If you are having AI trouble you really must suck at controlling units.

EIR removed half the problem of the AI (running out of cover to shoot), the rest of it is you not knowing the mechanics.

Tanks only turn around if you click to far, units only run off to attack if you issue an attack order without telling it what to do (either through placement or later movement). The only problem is collision forcing one soldier to move into the open occasionally.

I think I will just have to end this with a...

L2P

+1

Also, infantry charging into StuG tracks for no reason(I had an entire ranger squad run(as in, fire up speed, no fire up used) into the ass of a stug when I clicked attack).

Even I'm not entirely sure why this happens sometimes...

The whole point of this is that those issues add nothing to the game except for frustration and the necessity to spam halt/last command over and over again. Sure, I can and do spam this in order to get my units to do what I want them to do most of the time, but seriously, fuck that.

Well if you don't like it why do you keep doing it?

"Learning to play" should improve your strategy in playing the game, not fighting the goddamn interface or learning how to twist the engine/game mechanics in order to avoid AI problems. I don't have all those problems popping up all the time either, but one or two of those pop up literally every game, sometimes at critical moments.

Pretend you're commanding soldiers, not units. They won't do exactly what you want every time you want it, much like how certain soldiers can die a lot sooner or a lot later.

[Flashpoint Gold]

Flashpoint, all units, excluding the panther and M10 now charge the enemy like retards when you give an attack order. Shreks, LMGs you name it. Frankly, you can be at point blank range, if you give an attack order to a shrek, he'll still try to charge the enemy rather than shoot at him. Pressing h all the time has gotte nannoying.

Did you read?

If you did then you wouldn't be saying this. Right-click the unit you want it to attack then right-click where you want your unit to be, whether it be somewhere else or where it already is, but it will keep targeting the unit you told it to but hold its ground(somewhat).

To Malevolence, I don't feel like quoting all of that but there is alot of stuff in your post that has no contribution to this thread. Some small comments about how other games are worse and such. This is about making the game/AI better, not comparing it to other games.

So basically, this is a pointless thread unless the devs for EiR did something about this, but they won't because they don't mess with the core stuff. This would be a discussion for RelicNews Forums.

[Latios418]

The system encourages better micro, which is the point of a real time tactics game. Focus fire on the units you want to shoot - it's a game with interactivity, not movie fun time sit back and relax to eat popcorn.

I would like to point out this is fucking shit, and anybody who extensively circles Axis tanks knows it. Many ally tanks (such as a Tetrach) will fire at nearby infantry instead of the tank you're circling, and there is NOT A SINGLE FUCKING THING you can do about it. If you give it an attack order, you stop moving (thus the tank's turret catches up with you) and you still have to wait for your goddamn tank to turn it's turret back to the other tank because it was aiming at the infantry. If you keep moving it, you will never accomplish anything against the other tank.

Even if you aren't circling a tank, it's a HUGE fucking pain in the ass. If you don't want to sit still like a fucking duck, then you'd better be prepared to fire at the wrong targets. Maybe you want to kite some riflemen w/ stickies and continue firing at the enemy Sherman, or maybe
some artillery? Too fucking bad. That calliope only one shot away from death? Too fuckn bad, here comes the rifles with stickies, you either move or die, and when you move you won't get in the one fucking shot needed to kill the Calliope.

[Flashpoint Gold]

You can still circle, l2r.

[Mysthalin]

If you did then you wouldn't be saying this. Right-click the unit you want it to attack then right-click where you want your unit to be, whether it be somewhere else or where it already is, but it will keep targeting the unit you told it to but hold its ground(somewhat).

I'll put down a P4/P5/P6 and a grenadier at one place. Attack me with a tetrarch and do that, and thou shalt be applauded.
Funny thing is, the EiR devs could actualy fix it manually .

Want your MP40s to stay at long range? Vehicles fight from the most effective area for them, with as far as I can tell exception of the firefly, who thinks he can fight better at close range for some reason. That's a single bug out of dozens of vehicles, god forbid.

I'd rather have my MP40s stay at long(their max) range and in heavy cover than charge through negative, personaly, and just target the unit I ordered them to. If I want them to charge, I give them a move order, if I want them to stop and shoot(AKA Focus Fire), I give them an attack order. Simple, intuitive and codeable, wouldn't you agree? Improves gameplay and joy of playing while not making it a movie.

You dont design a general, most accessible attack order so that the game interprets it 100% of the time as a very specific close range move and shoot action.

It doesn't.

Not exactly 100 percent, but 85 - absolutely.

Don't bump your panther into a young fir tree, then? This sounds a lot like user error to me, albeit frustratingly easy to bunk user error.

Too bad on some maps the fir trees are crushable, on some they aren't, on some a part of them are crushable, and the other part not. Having a trank drive around trying to ram down a stone wall just because "it's there" isn't really user fault - you're not going to only use tanks in absolutely open fields(ATGs ftw), are you?

Target Priority works within the unit's search radius, which is bigger than its weapon range

Thankfully that is incorrect, or we'd have snipers charging across the map just because your recon run spotted an HMG, tanks not shooting at an enemy ATG crew because there's a "better target" just outside your max range, and other stupid and pointless crap. Search radius is exactly the same as weapon range radius - fiddle around in making your own mod with custom weapon ranges, and you will notice that you can't even alter the search range - it's automaticaly set to the weapon's "max range".

Pretend you're commanding soldiers, not units. They won't do exactly what you want every time you want it, much like how certain soldiers can die a lot sooner or a lot later.

It's a game, we should expect the units to behave like in a game where you're "god", not like in a real combat situation where the units may make their own decisions(to have a happy tank dance, however much they feel like partying).

Quote
The system encourages better micro, which is the point of a real time tactics game. Focus fire on the units you want to shoot - it's a game with interactivity, not movie fun time sit back and relax to eat popcorn.

I would like to point out this is fucking shit, and anybody who extensively circles Axis tanks knows it. Many ally tanks (such as a Tetrach) will fire at nearby infantry instead of the tank you're circling, and there is NOT A SINGLE FUCKING THING you can do about it. If you give it an attack order, you stop moving (thus the tank's turret catches up with you) and you still have to wait for your goddamn tank to turn it's turret back to the other tank because it was aiming at the infantry. If you keep moving it, you will never accomplish anything against the other tank.

Even if you aren't circling a tank, it's a HUGE fucking pain in the ass. If you don't want to sit still like a fucking duck, then you'd better be prepared to fire at the wrong targets. Maybe you want to kite some riflemen w/ stickies and continue firing at the enemy Sherman, or maybe
some artillery? Too fucking bad. That calliope only one shot away from death? Too fuckn bad, here comes the rifles with stickies, you either move or die, and when you move you won't get in the one fucking shot needed to kill the Calliope.

Albeit written in a ragey manner, this is true. It could all be fixed if we set the targetting priorities for all tank guns against all enemy units to an equal 50, meaning they would not switch targets each time you gave them a move order, but would still continue trying to shoot at the enemy they were ordered to. This has the drawback of taking a shitload of time to put into the code, and would require re-writing each time there's a relic patch(lol, once every 2 years ftw). I've already offered this to be implemented, and I think I could actualy do it myself, if need be.