Discussion Thread-What makes a map a "bad map"

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[GrayWolf]

Tanteville

Seriously ? No one enters the town if he/she sees a demo or mine.

IF you play real city map, like carentan you don't have a choice.

[Mister Schmidt]

You certainly don't render that entire part of the map out of bounds just because of that.

And if you do, well then that company has succeeded, hasn't it?

Point is, Tante has both, and is a good map.

Could also mention Abbeville

Wind sums my point up perfectly here

Space & Diversity: Does the map have a good combination of space to flank, maneuver, set up support weapons and establish clear defensive lines without being a total field map? Does it have areas that cater to players who prefer some buildings, shot blockers, crevices and nooks? For me Neuville is a good example of some intimate little fighting spots for players who excel and prefer city fighting while also having open plains for players who like open fields to slug it out on in world war 1 style fighting AND fringe spaces for nomad players to roam the outskirts flanking/harassing at will. It has a little bit of something for everyone.

[TheWindCriesMary]

The city in Tanteville is my favourite part of the map to play in. For others, it's the right side field that is more open but still has hard defined borders and a little building flavour to it. For others, there is the vast open fields on the far left side of the map that they tend to favour.

Tanteville has a little something for everyone. Neuville has a little something for everyone. So does Forest though to a lesser extent than those two. That is why all three are enormously succesful maps.

Bad maps are those which cater ONLY to one playstyle and type of company composition. Good maps have variety and nuance.

[tank130]

Surely a truly good map enables all company builds to be viable on it though?

I don't see that the company you have dictates the map you play, certainly not with the way you choose your company first, and then decide on the map. If it was the other way around, sure, but...

That is the whole problem right there.

Too many people build companies that are only good on specific maps / environments. Then they play a map that does not suit their company build and they blame the map.

Seriously ? No one enters the town if he/she sees a demo or mine.
IF you play real city map, like carentan you don't have a choice.

Thank you for the perfect example.

For my company, carentan is great, even if I am playing against a demo company. I simply use my StuH to destroy the building and shoot over it. Lots of cover to protect my StuH. Place some shrek storms in the building beside/behind me and it is covered from armor attack.

However, If I am playing tanteville I am much more limited for that option unless I only stay in the city.

So based on that, I could QQ that Tante sucks and Carentan is awesome. But the reality is both maps are fine, but my company is too limited.

[aeroblade56]

But as was stated there are maps that are truly awfull. like industrial heartland.

[Hicks58]

Industrial Heartland wouldn't be so bad if the pathing and road issues were sorted.

Then again, I'm pretty much in love with any urban maps because the challenge of using armour in those maps is an absolute blast - Especially the peekaboo playstyle where you can dart between buildings for protection from ATG's. Villers Bocage for life.

[CrazyWR]

But as was stated there are maps that are truly awfull. like industrial heartland.

The thread isn't really about naming the truly awful maps, although that will obviously be a part of it, but more about exploring WHY those maps are bad.  I understand you dislike Industrial Heartland because you think it has too much cluster and forces you to certain parts of the maps to use vehicles.  In the game we played, I did not feel that way.  There were certainly easy routes to take that would make it easier to get from point A to point B, and the map could use a couple buildings removed in one or two places to ease a bit of congestion, but there was enough space to take my Tiger across the map through the maze of buildings if necessary.

 And while I understand city maps tend to encourage a lot of standup fighting without much room for flanking in the normal way, they do allow for a different sort of flanking.  Sticking a unit in a building to draw fire while using other units to move from building to building to get around to the side is perhaps safer than flanking on field maps, although more time consuming. 

Anyways, I agree Industrial Heartland could use a bit of love, but it is not a hopeless map. 

[Unkn0wn]

4p Airfield by Unknown.
Whole right side of map is incapable.
Leaving only left side which is 2 sectors wide and heavily clustered with buildings.

For the record, I don't even know why this map was readded. I certainly never submitted it. There were several iterations that had the entire map covered with sectors, I honestly don't understand why they didn't use those if they wanted to add it that badly. It always was a pretty bad map for EIR as I made it for the panzerkrieg gamemode shortly after ToV was released.

I think Wind comes close in his analysis of what constitutes a good map. Basically it needs to allow for good pathing (relatively wide avenues and paths, enough space ), fluent gameplay and a variety of playstyles. It should also have some focal points in and around the middle of the map, natural chokepoints that players will want to fight over.

This is why good maps always tend to have some (yet not too many) buildings in and around the middle that can serve as chokepoints, have wide enough paths that allow for  proper vehicle play and feature a good mix of open (field) and dense (urban) areas

[skaffa]

WW1 maps are bad

WW2 maps are good

[chefarzt]

Id love to see a map with HORRIBLE pathing that bogs down every vehicle and wipes the smile from every tank users face. You know battlefield conditions are not always optimal.I hate the tendency to streamline the maps to suit every company.

[Hicks58]

PE players would never allow that, lol.

[chefarzt]

The point is that eir is at a point where some people complain about a single tree somewhere in the map,having blocked a tank loosing that person the game.
Needs a fat smack in the face. Go IMBA.