State of Balance

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[Demon767]

oh yea forgot bout the hotchkiss. sorry haha i forgot because its 4pp for a very weak armored tank. my awareness sucks and i will just lose it haha

[Relay]

A sure way of achieving a balanced game would be to have every unit and ability be mirrored on the opposite faction with the exact same stats. May be initially time consuming but would completely solve factional imbalances and cut time on future adjustments considerably.
Of course nobody cares about balance enough to implement such a simple, boring solution.

[CryingWolf]

True theres the hotchkiss, But Its TERRIBLE at actually hitting anything, and because it only fire 4 Stuka's. It doesn't do much.
Imo, Its a waste of space, You can get better stuff with the resources you spend on the Hotchkiss

[VictorTarget]

can PE get a non doctrinal arty, only arty PE is the hummel which is in scorched earth (which is un appealing)

Compare to other doctrines factions.

You'll be surprised to realize that of the brits, only the RCA gets arty, and even then, have no offmap arty until T3. (Other than FOO, which you pay OUT THE ASS for)

Almost everyone gets some form of arty.  American doctrines, for instance, get strafe/calli/howie for their three.  Wehr gets the all-doctrine nebel, THEN stuka for some, and plenty of offmaps, from RA, to V1s, to officer call-ins.  Brits have very little arty as well, with the exception of later-tier RCA.  

I don't think having MORE non-doctrinal arty for another axis faction will help.  Right now, almost every game I play, it feels like I'm re-enacting d-day, without the air support or battleship guns to save my poor men.

[Lemures]

If you own a store that strives to sell equal amounts of Coke and Pepsi, and keep all of your carbonated beverage lovers reasonably happy - but 90% of everyone who comes in prefers Coke to Pepsi... until you run out of Coke and people drink Pepsi only because their options are limited...  you can make the Coke more expensive, make the Pepsi cheaper, put some nicotine in the Pepsi, or some laxatives in the Coke...    

Or you can do nothing, I suppose, but that seems like a shame to me.

If they are out of coke you just lost yourself a customer.

I play Allies purely because Argosian isn't as good at Axis and getting games is twice as fast.  Americans are bland..you get rifles and your elite infantry.

[Piotrskivich]

Americans are not bland at all.

Lots of fun stuff.

Stun + clown car

Massive amounts of mines

Calliope

Quad

[Bubz]

<.<

[Guderian]

I felt sad when i kicked allieds but and had streaks  Felt like i was making them think  :Fuck it....Why am i even playing allies:

[Blitzen]

Nebel can't really be compared to arty.  Sure it reloads faster, but it doesn't one shot units, doesn't hurt tanks, takes a long time to land.  Its basically my anti blob.  If you can pin em, and maybe kill a few guys.  However, it doesn't pin em very long.

[Killer344]

tbh, I was going to post exactly the same but scrap did it for me, thanks,

[Schultz]

Yes, allies are really so boring to play. We've asked for more variety even when fldash was here. Its probably the third-fourth time im making such a post and reading a similar thread.
This is a mod. In no way it has to follow strictly vcoh gameplay. In that sense adding new units/ new weapons, new choices, new whatever will make them more appealing.
Back in old eir people were forced to play allies because everybody and i mean everybody wanted to be axis. It was lol times to have 4-5 games on, all with axis and like no allies on at all.
I started playing allies because i fed up waiting for a game but i never liked them, ever. Theyre like lemures say bland. All you care for is veting the elite unit/infantry. Riflemen suck, support teams sucks, tanks suck.
I went throught vet 3 everything with infantry doctrine and 12k xp. Nothing changes. Still the same units, still the same unappealing choices. Nowadays i play panzer elite, because im also fed up with werhmacht but theres like nothing that will make me play allies again as theres nothing to motivate me. I dont want to blob, not vetwhore elite infantry, a calli, a pershing or whatever. In the end theres nothing anymore that motivates me playing and winning as allies.

[EliteGren]

Wise words Schultz, I see it exactly the same way.

[Pak88mm]

Rocksitter, you have commited nothing more to this thread but whining and attempting to start a flamewar, please do not continue this activity.

The database numbers Scyn has posted, even though they are correct, are absolutely missleading. If there were equal ammounts of allied to axis players, why would ventrilo start ringing in a triumphant cumfest when someone says "guys, there's more allies than axis on?".

The sad truth is, people consistently play only on one side - namely werhmacht, as it's the "coolest" one to play as. I have no idea why I play americans mostly, personaly. At first, I wanted to play the underdog(when I joined), later, it was just easier to get games, now... It's a habit, I guess. Admitedly, flank speed on shermans almost makes me horny ^^.

The balance is almost perfect in my opinion, other than a few issues :
1. Fausts.
2. Stormie Shrek Price.
3. Vet bonuses are quite too powerful on some units.

I would side with scrapking in this discussion - Scyn's flaming of him was completely uncalled for, and scrapking was making a rather concrete point, even if it was based on his observations. It may be that I'm as wrong as he is, but I also almost always see a ratio of 3-4 wehr to 1 allied in the launcher, waiting for games.

1. needs to back to normal or knock down its percentage to do criticals

2. theres no unit that uses 250 munitions! last go round it was 300! and still no unit uses that much plus 15 for health kit and tack on a bundle for lulz. Thats all for a 4 man squad that cant stand up to any infantry that uses assaults. right now i have plunked 500 on storms and another 30 on their med kits lulz. You want me to pay 50 more munis? guess what....im still gonna rape all your tanks.

3. gah? name some. cant i cant sure scream nerf on vet 3! the only nerf that was needed was panthers uber sight range. But even then how many vet 3 panther were rolling around.

[Bubz]

I would add medikits and some tweaking to myst list to begin.

Ps: bars on airbornes were giving that original feeling at least to one doctrine, but now meh...

[dravidian]

i believe the fact that the allies have less variety and are capped on how many of such and such they can have is just ruining the allied gameplay, if you guys could make a scorched earth/boobytrap doctrine for allies i would play it, but at this moment i think the axis are just offering more variety and funner doctrines

[Guderian]

Even if it sounds off it is actually very hard to make a ''good'' company for allies, One that is balanced and helps the different parts out.


I have really only one problem playing allieds



- Extremely many of the players are either fully newcomers or people who suck at vcoh, They get their ass handed and move over to axis where there is a good chance to either be with pros and learn or meet equal and kick their ass due to the allies need better tactics. (last thing is my point of view)

- Not so many extremely good players on the allied team that is up to and/or willing to teach them (this is disputed tough)

[Glaze]

Yeah, the Axis players do seem to generally be better than the Allies.  I admit, I'm pretty bad at this game most of the time, and when I see the only game available is one full of Axis that have won 20 games and have only lost 6 or 7, I get a little apprehensive.  Of course the PP is good (although it's starting to slow down pretty significantly now that I'm at level 4, oh noes!), and this mod is good fun to play regardless, but stuff like that might scare away other potential Allies players.  Personally, I probably wouldn't even have an Allied account is it weren't easier to find games with one (PE are my favorite army to play as.  WM are great, sure, but not as fun in my opinion, and those bright blue suits they wear are ridiculous), but now I'm real glad I did!

[acker]

As previously stated, one of the problems is that the Americans are commonly perceived as the disposable faction in a persistency modification. Americans aren't significantly OP/UP, but they aren't very fun to play.

I suppose that improving Sherman smoke could help with tank veterancy. Crocs have to get 15 units within AT range (nowadays, the 30 Mun Panzerfaust of crit) to start shooting. Turning the M10 into something other than the suicide unit it currently is could be a bigger problem.

I don't know how to solve this without breaking the game.

[petewinny23]

Personaly my biggest problem in EiR are nebels, now almost every wehr player has 1.
Wehr is only faction with non doctrine specific arty. Imo nebels should go to terror. Stuka in vcoh was also non doctrine specific, but was to heavly spammed so it's in defensive now, there is same problem with nebel atm.

Yeah spinn is most likely right about this one....nebels can swing a battle if a good enough player keeps them on the field long enough.
I endorse this post.  Move it to terror please.  the Nebel is the main worry with axis, besides the wher mortar.  Subtle changes like this can bring the game more into balance

[Smokaz]

What a load of horse dung.


I can't understand what the basis is of opinions like "americans are boring to play" or have to be "played in elite-spam/arty spam type of way".  Sure, you have to spend a couple of offmaps or doctrine tricks to get rid of a wehr nebel or a mortar, but you don't have to take it any further than that nor does the game currently allow you to do so. Howitzers are not godlike calliopes and are easy to counter with wehrmacht's own offmaps most of the time. It dissapoints me that good players like Schultz and Elitegren would go out and make such statements when they don't even try to play americans regularly from what I've seen, regardless of what they "feel" they lend credence to false objective evaluation of americans as boring.

About elite inf:

- There's no necessity in spamming rangers as the are not cost-effective if they are spammed as well as far too tempting to attempt fighting tanks with (which they really suck at)
- Airborne have counters
- Commandos got a price increase (for those who have that reinforcement)

In my current american account (22-1) I have a grand total of 4 squads of "elite" infantry. 2 unupgraded ranger squads and 2 commandos which die regularly. I switch between a 4th/3rd Sherman and a single howitzer depending on how many wehr players there is on the other team. The rest of my infantry are RIFLES and engineers backed up by zero (0) support weapons and at guns. I even drive around my vet 2 engineers in a pimp bren carrier owning unsupported squads. That's pretty awesome, imo.

For my armor I have m10s, shermans and usually 0-1 m18s. That's pretty diverse. In fact, this company is extremely enjoyable. Rifle micro, flanking, baiting and diversion are the tools of my trade. In this company I dont turn MGs like a robot or press B for barrage on my mortars. I just go for it with my guys, throw nades and keep my AT supporting my rifles really well. It's very satisfying to cream a wehrmacht stronghold, imo.

So.. if anyone is just gonna be negative and deliberately give americans a bad rep when they are actually a really fun faction to play, you might as well stfu, as that's not what struggling new players or people playing americans deserve to hear in a mod flooded by small hitlerjunge.