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Author Topic: [CW] Some peculiar things regarding balance  (Read 25186 times)
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LuAn Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572



« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2009, 04:08:46 pm »

CCS to buy if they don't already have one.

CSS costs 80mun on Tommies, so Brits already have one.

But i like the concept of a Glider working as a triage center so how about this change:
T3 Glider Triage: After a glider has landed and stayed on the field for X min, it can use the same healing ability like the css Y times (X and Y represent numbers that should fit the balance of other t3's)

This way it cant be used instantly after the glider is dropped but is still remains powerfull.
(In my opinion 1-2 Min wait time and 1-2 uses would fit)


This would apply to every glider, whereas at first this might sound a bit strong considering how many gliders one battalion can field, glider still remain very fragile, but if you look at all the other t3 it would fit quite well.

Or maybe make uses this version move it to T4 (in exchange with Ambush Squad) and make it fit?
(Stronger version. e.g. unlimited use of healing on glider on a 4min cd)


Any thoughts?

« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 04:33:29 pm by LuAn » Logged

aka UckY  Wink
LuAn Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572



« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2009, 02:17:39 pm »

Found something interesting again:

6 Abilities:
Ability NameMun Cost        CD/Use
Canister Shot 85Uses
Focus Fire40Cooldown
White Phosphorus75Uses
Treadbreaker95Cooldown
Creeping Barrage80Uses
Incidieary Mortar Round       40Cooldown

Why is it like that?




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Malevolence Offline
Donator
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Posts: 1871



« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2009, 02:22:14 pm »

Disparate levels of rape, I believe.

Canister vs focus fire, the canister happens all at once, which is much more useful for damage than over time. After a focus fire shot or two comes in you can run out of the way, but the first canister is also the last canister. I would support a cooldown, however.

White phosphorous is cheaper but uses because while its long-term effects aren't as potent, its immediate effect is quite powerful as well as being mounted on a strong platform, while tread breaker is on a weaker platform (hence the uses), but its long-term effect is ridiculously potent, so it costs more.

Creeping barrage is clearly much more damaging than incendiary mortar rounds by a factor of ten, so it costs more and is limited in use.
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Akranadas' Greatest Hits, Volume 1:

Quote from: Akranadas
Vet has nothing to do with unit preformance.

Quote from: Akranadas
We are serious about enforcing this, and I am sure you all want to be able to have your balance thought considered by the development team with some biased, sensationalist coming into your thread and ruining it.
CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2009, 02:49:49 pm »

please explain why they can't just put them on different levels of cooldown instead of uses v cooldown...to be honest, all abilities should be EITHER/OR, not randomly one or the other...
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1. New tactics? it's like JAWS, first one in the water dies

RCA-land where shells fall like raindrops and the Captain is an invincible god
Malevolence Offline
Donator
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Posts: 1871



« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2009, 03:04:55 pm »

Either/or? Yes, they are either cooldown or uses :p
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LuAn Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572



« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2009, 11:12:08 am »

Found something interesting again: (However point of view should be PE this time  Wink )

17Pounder Emplacement
Doctrines:
Royal Engineers
Manpower: 350
Ammunition: 150
Fuel: 0
In reserve: 4
In supply: 2
PP cost to supply: 3
Vet modifier: 180
Upgrades:
HVAP Rounds (Cost: 0/55/0)
Relocate: Yes
Bofors Emplacement
Doctrines:
Royal Engineers
Manpower: 295
Ammunition: 110
Fuel: 0
In reserve: 1
In supply: 2
PP cost to supply: 3
Vet modifier: 200
Upgrades:   

Relocate: Yes
Flak 88
Doctrines:
Luftwaffe - T2 Flak Cannons
Manpower: 450
Ammunition: 0
Fuel: 220
In reserve: 1
In supply: 3
PP cost to supply: 3
Vet modifier: 180
Upgrades:
Medkit (Cost: 0/25/0)
Relocate: No
Flakveirling
Doctrines:
Luftwaffe - T2 Flak Cannons
Manpower: 290
Ammunition: 60
Fuel: 0
In reserve: 1
In supply: 2
PP cost to supply: 2
Vet modifier: 200
Upgrades:

Relocate: No


Why is it like that?



« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 11:16:33 am by LuAn » Logged
Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2009, 11:49:25 am »

Because 17 pdrs are useless, 88s aren't Tongue.
Both the bofors and the vierling are ultimately useless as well - they could make them 10 In reserve and cost 250 MP only - we'd still not see many.
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CafeMilani Offline
Aloha
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Posts: 2994



« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2009, 01:10:07 pm »

bofors arent useless!
flakvierling is kinda caus the crew dies too fast and it kills few
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Mukip Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 450



« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2009, 01:43:08 pm »

I think the population on Bofors and Flak could be reduced by 1 each.  They aren't much good by themselves and rely on a nearby Flak88 or 6/17 Pounder to keep them safe from tanks.

Perhaps the devs could add the option to buy a combined Flak88/Flackvierling callin which costs 5-6 pop total and has a slightly reduced total price.  Same for Bofors and 17 Pounder.
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LuAn Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572



« Reply #69 on: July 28, 2009, 05:14:52 pm »

Oke now this is very very interesting, for me atleast, and its also a very hot topic but here you go:

T3 Unlocks:
American - Airborne: First to Jump: "Airborne Riflemen available to purchase"
unlocks the following:
Airborne Riflemen
Doctrines: Airborne - T3 First to Jump
Pop: 5
Can airdrop: Yes
Can glider: No
Manpower: 280
Ammunition: 0
Fuel: 0
In reserve: 4
In supply: 2
PP cost to supply: 4
Vet modifier: 80
Upgrades:  
Bar (Cost: 0/80/0)
Grenades (Cost: 0/40/0)
Sticky Bomb (Cost: 0/95/0)

and

Panzer Elite - Luftwaffe: Dropping Heavy: "FJs can purchase a panzershreck"
unlocks the following:
Fallschirmjaegers
Upgrades:
exlusive Panzershrek (Cost: 0/120/0, Ability: T3 Dropping Heavy)


Both of them are T3, yet they are so very different, why is that so?



Thats the unit this Upgrade is purchaseable for:
Fallschirmjagers
Doctrines: Luftwaffe
Pop: 5
Can airdrop: Yes
Can glider: No
Manpower: 250
Ammunition: 0
Fuel: 0
In reserve: 4
In supply: 2
PP cost to supply: 4
Vet modifier: 80
Upgrades:

exclusive FG 42 (Cost: 0/120/0)
Panzerfaust (Cost: 0/35/0)
Anti-building Incendiary Grenade (Cost: 0/30/0)

Luftwaffe only:
exclusive G43 (Cost: 0/60/0, Ability: T2 Handing it over)
exclusive Panzershrek (Cost: 0/120/0, Ability: T3 Dropping Heavy)
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Mukip Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 450



« Reply #70 on: July 28, 2009, 05:19:03 pm »

They do different things so I'm not sure what the comparison is here.  One gives airborne a semi-new unit to play with, the other unlocks an upgrade for an existing unit.

Dropping heavy seems seems like a rather lacklustre T3 though.
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Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18379


« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2009, 05:22:19 pm »

In comparison the 'dropping heavy' ability is probably a tad underpowered indeed.
Perhaps it would help if we made it a seperate unit with added availability, allowing users to get more air dropped units in total just like it does for AB players.

We'll be finalising doctrines over the course of the next week or so, once that is completed we will be able to take a closer look at existing doctrine balance, etc
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LuAn Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572



« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2009, 05:24:51 pm »

Unknown thats great news, thank you for answering.
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HansVonLuk Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 220


« Reply #73 on: July 28, 2009, 09:49:15 pm »

was the pricing from the pricing list or from the launcher?  I think a FEW have changed.

things like bren carrier are being addressed in P patch, bren MMG as well.
the brens are actually 4 pop in rgds, and were corrected in the sql(launcher).

Thats fine, but remeber that IFHT are the only MGS that PE have.
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CommanderHolt Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 600


« Reply #74 on: July 28, 2009, 10:33:22 pm »

Also remember that PE can use G43 Slow which pretty much function as suppression (although only on single squads) and even continues to effect the said unit even if the unit is outside the PGs G43 range until it wears off.
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HansVonLuk Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 220


« Reply #75 on: July 28, 2009, 10:45:44 pm »

Also remember that PE can use G43 Slow which pretty much function as suppression (although only on single squads) and even continues to effect the said unit even if the unit is outside the PGs G43 range until it wears off.

What? Not really, units can still move at half speed and can fire back with no negatives. Units suppress rarely leave that area unless retreating.  How is that like suppression?  
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CommanderHolt Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 600


« Reply #76 on: July 28, 2009, 10:58:14 pm »

Suppressed units also can fire back with no negatives and both moves pretty much at the same speed despite one crawling and one just does an incredibly stupid slow-mo running kind of thing.

I know these CoHStats are old but I highly doubt that anything has changed since there last update on these things.

http://www.coh-stats.com/basics/suppression.html

http://www.coh-stats.com/factions/panzerelite/abilities/warningshot.html
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 11:07:20 pm by CommanderHolt » Logged
Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #77 on: July 29, 2009, 01:04:11 am »

Suppression also fucks up the unit AI so they crawl around in random directions, ignoring orders. Slow doesn't do that.
On a side note, if you keep shooting with the G43 squad as it slows, you may suppress a unit in within 6-8 seconds or so ^^.
Pop slow on one, suppress the other = profit.
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