The Tiger

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[Two]

Well you have to play allies to understand tbh.

[Glaze]

The Pershing is 25% faster than the Tiger…

Yeah, but isn't the Tiger better in most other ways?

Well you have to play allies to understand tbh.

Have you played axis?  Just saying, I've found the grass always seems greener on the opposite side when I play this mod.

[FailHammer]

The pershing has fast turret rotation(numbers?) and is pretty good vs infantry. Yes speed is very important. The panther is the best axis tank killer but it is not that good vs infantry.

As to the Tiger, it is like a p4 in that it blasts infantry apart. use it slightly behind your infantry an it will f shit up.

[Mysthalin]

I won't take pauli's word for ANYTHING in a balance discussion until he plays allies at least for a week.

[Blitzen]

Myst, you are like paulies twin on the allied side.

[Mysthalin]

I'll play you on my axis, and quite possibly win versus you too ^^.

[Sixpack]

I'll play you on my axis, and quite possibly win versus you too ^^.

Quoting for truth (I m an axis fanboy!!)

[Two]

The Pershing is 25% faster than the Tiger…

Yeah, but isn't the Tiger better in most other ways?

Well you have to play allies to understand tbh.

Have you played axis?  Just saying, I've found the grass always seems greener on the opposite side when I play this mod.

Yes i have, axis is such an easy mode compared to allies. (unless your a ab spammer then its not that hard)

[acker]

It still doesn’t change the fact that the Pershing has better stats. 

Since snipers kill with crits, not damage, the Axis Sniper is actually better than the Allied sniper in terms of raw stats. But the Axis have squads with fewer men than the Allies.

That's why the Axis (Wehr) sniper costs slightly less than the Allied (US) sniper.

[RikiRude]

stickies are only a problem for a tiger if its on vet 2 rifles, because a vet 0 or vet 1 rifle will run up to the tiger, get shot, lose 3 men, get 5 feet away, by the time the guy reaches for the sticky, the tiger will be out of range, and will gib 2 more guys if not all the last 3. and AP rounds on your ATGs becomes pretty expensive because you THINK a heavy tank will show up, especially if you don't even get a chance to use them.

[CrazyWR]

You gotta take field repairs, crew repairs, OBM and such into account which let you recycle your pershing more than once unlike the tiger.

you can't have field repairs and crew repairs AND a pershing. 

[EliteGren]

Im not saying all at once, I just listed all the possible alternatives which let you recycle your pershing more than once.

[Mysthalin]

You need to take into account precision strike and stormtroopers, as well as heat rounds and improved barrels, ALL of which help the tiger's survivability considerably. Precision strike can destroy AT guns, so can shrecked stormtroopers, whereas STG44 stormtroopers can deal with RRs(though PIATs are very dangerous to a tiger, even with stormies clearing the path). Improved barrels lets it outrange shermans, as well as disallow M10s, M18s and fireflies from kiting it.

It all adds up to both units - the tiger is a beast with HR and IMBA

[SaintPauli]

You need to take into account precision strike and stormtroopers, as well as heat rounds and improved barrels, ALL of which help the tiger's survivability considerably. Precision strike can destroy AT guns, so can shrecked stormtroopers, whereas STG44 stormtroopers can deal with RRs(though PIATs are very dangerous to a tiger, even with stormies clearing the path). Improved barrels lets it outrange shermans, as well as disallow M10s, M18s and fireflies from kiting it.

It all adds up to both units - the tiger is a beast with HR and IMBA

You Sir simply do not know what you are talking about:

Precision strike only decrews AT guns and they can dodge it (hard). Allied arty kills AT guns.

Shrecked stormtroopers kills AT guns - But cost 305MU and can’t get close if there is a BAR or HMG

STG44 stormtroopers can deal with RRs  - Unless there is a BAR, Ranger, Commando, or a HMG. Dual MP44 is also totally out of the question because of price.

Improved barrels lets it outrange shermans  - Yes but you should not attack a tiger with a Sherman. Fireflies still kite the kitty with ease.

[Mysthalin]

With 3 more range, I really doubt the firefly kites the tiger at all easily.

Precision strike only decrews the ATG, that is true, and let's the tiger come up and finish it off, or let's it attack a point, or just saves the tiger from getting shot in the ass by a sneaky ninja-6 pdr.
Armor does NOT have off-maps to clear out paks with, and even then - 105 barrages are pretty unreliable at killing paks.

Schrecked stormtroopers are 280 MU, not 305.

He's blobbing, eh? use the non-doctrinal nebelwerfer to kill the enemy, then, no need for even bringing on the tiger.

[Baine]

Your comparison is way too abstract mysthalin, that looks more like a desperate try to counter this.

The one thing is Pershing with a lot of abilities that help him directly like OBM etc.

Then you want to compare that with offmaps etc that kill other units. That's far from equal.

But i think the Tiger only needs a slight buff as it stands right now.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Schrecked stormtroopers are 280 MU, not 305.

Medkits on Storms are a must.

But i think the Tiger only needs a slight buff as it stands right now.

Improving the Tiger's vet would certainly help.
.75 moving accuracy (from the current .5) at vet 2, or the vehicle moving bonus at vet 3 would both go a long way in making the tiger a little more useful.

[EliteGren]

Moving ability at vet 3 seems reasonable.

[Mysthalin]

I did not know uniformity was what we're seeking between factions. There is rather little to counter, tbh, so I'm hardly being desperate.

If you bring up OBM, I can bring up the equivilent blitz T4, however.

The abilities that help a pershing directly : Field repairs or Crew Repairs(not implemented yet) OBM or Super Pershing(not implemented) or NGV and mobile warfare + Tungsten tipping. A grand total of 4 abilities maximum, out of a choise of 8. So 5 implemented abilities, out of which you can chose 4.

The abilities that help a tiger directly : Heat rounds or German engineering(not implemented) or Conviction/Blitzkrieg and improved barrels. So 5 out of which 3 can be chosen. 4 implemented's out of which you can chose 3.

Not particularly horribly gimped when compared to the Pershing. I personaly do not believe the Tiger needs any buff whatsoever, other than moving ability at vet 3.

Medkits on Storms are a must.

That is entirely a subject of opinion. Some people may get scorched earth reinforcements, removing the need for medikits.

[SaintPauli]

With 3 more range, I really doubt the firefly kites the tiger at all easily.
 

Sigh…The Firefly has 55 range. That’s 10 more than a improved barrel Tiger. It also recived another +2.5 or +5 range from the command tank.

He's blobbing, eh? use the non-doctrinal nebelwerfer to kill the enemy, then, no need for even bringing on the tiger.

But i think the Tiger only needs a slight buff as it stands right now.

Improving the Tiger's vet would certainly help.
.75 moving accuracy (from the current .5) at vet 2, or the vehicle moving bonus at vet 3 would both go a long way in making the tiger a little more useful.

Both the Pershing and the Tiger needs this. Their vet should remain equal.