[PE] F-A-I-Lschirmjagers

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[HansVonLuk]

Are vet 3 firepower VCoH FJs better than vet 3 FJs EiRR with buff? Im not the dev here so I cannt figure it out but there seems a big contrast.  If this is true then why?

Accuracy 1.1
Reload 0.9
Cooldown 0.9
Penetration 1.15    

for each level of vet for 3 levels.

Vet FJS EiRR
-Vet1 Received damage 0.85
-Vet2 Accuracy 1.15, Received Accuracy 0.9, Sprint Ability, Additional Panzerfaust use
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Assault Bonus*, Damage 1.2,

Ok so you get sprint and extra use of panzerfausts dmage increase and more health.  However, you get a serioulsy about of fire power increase with the VCoH vertrancy.

Situationaly,  FJs in cover unit tries to rush unit dies pretty much no matter what, however might throw a grenade.  

Situationaly, FJs trying to take territory encounter blob no cover available, options run backward try to find cover or stand and fight.  If they had the EiRR Vet then they are going to loose no matter what unless they are against just rifle men without upgrades due to low health and lack of firepower.  If however they had the Vet 3 firepower upgrade then they would kill if not mame most units before they get close.  More firepower means more survivablity.

Therefore EiRR has nerfed, if not directly but indirectly due to the fact that  Vet and been brought under one system where every unit get the same, this underminds the effectiveness of not only FJs but PE infantry as a whole.

Is this an alien lanuage to you? can you not see the diffrence? Firepower Vet in VCoH mean you have 10%+10%+10% accuracy, -10%-10%-10% reload, same for cooldown

FG42  Reload 4—3.5, Cooldown 2—1.5

so accuracy 1.1, then 1.21, then 1.33 thats a 33% accuracy unless im mistaken.
so cooldown 0.9, then 0.81, then 0.73 thats 27% less cool down.  Cooldown now becomes 1.46 -1.09
same caculation for reload, 27% less reload. Reload now becomes 2.92 - 2.55

Vet 3 FJs EiRR 15% accuracy and 20% damage and fire a burst ever 6 - 5 secs. (20% damage increase is only marginal 1.4 damage per shot)
Vet 3 FJs VCoH 33% accuracy and fire every 4.38 - 3.64.

At close range encounter those few seconds can make a massive differance.  

It really annoys me when people say are you using them right, but come on the best way to use any units in to be in green cover whille the enemy is in red cover, except when encountering flamers.  This is true for any unit, so you telling me to put my units in cover to get the best use out of them, durr i didnt know that.

[HansVonLuk]

I play PE too.

I don't think any faction is "worse" or "better" than they were in vCoH.

Tommies get vet and get better.

Every unit gets better with vet.

But Tommies only got better in VCoH with Officer vet, now they get Officer vet bonusses and there own vet.  Thats Stack on stack, without doctrine buffs included.  So therefore for that very reason alone Tommies have got better than they where in VCoH.

[jackmccrack]

What does that have to do with Falls?

[CommanderHolt]

I play PE too.

I don't think any faction is "worse" or "better" than they were in vCoH.

Tommies get vet and get better.

Every unit gets better with vet.

But Tommies only got better in VCoH with Officer vet, now they get Officer vet bonusses and there own vet.  Thats Stack on stack, without doctrine buffs included.  So therefore for that very reason alone Tommies have got better than they where in VCoH.

Since you want to compare it to vCoH....

First off, both Lt, Cpt., and CCT Auras bonuses have been nerfed and now can't have Mutiple Officers stacking on top of each other (ie. having 2 Lts near a Tommy Squad only gives buff from only one of the Lt.) However Lt. and Cpt. can still affect a unit at the same time.

You also seem to forget that American (Infantry) Vet has also been toned down considerably from vCoH and that Wher Vet is Much better then it vCoH counterpart.

[HansVonLuk]

What does that have to do with Falls?

Lots.  EiRR comes alongthink lets give tommie squads vet and officer still give them buufs, falls got worse becuase they get the same Vet system that ever one else gets, and dont have there own unique Vet system like they have in VCoH with made them truely stand out.

[HansVonLuk]

Accuracy 1.1
Reload 0.9
Cooldown 0.9
Penetration 1.15    

for each level of vet for 3 levels.

Vet FJS EiRR
-Vet1 Received damage 0.85
-Vet2 Accuracy 1.15, Received Accuracy 0.9, Sprint Ability, Additional Panzerfaust use
-Vet3 Health 1.1, Assault Bonus*, Damage 1.2,

Sooo...at vet 3, EIRR FJ will have more health, with doctrines similar accuracy, higher damage output, and less damage received than vCoH FJ....

The Doctrines are really just making them even better.

more health? yes I guess so, all of 6 Hp per man makeing them still have less than pios per man.

even with the 15% for Kurts finest and that a tier three docterine buff, they get only 76 puting them just behing basic grens at vet 0 and the FJs are vet 3.

[CommanderHolt]

You Forget that they still have Soldier Armour, which reduces most small arms damage and accuacy. Pretty much it only weakness is Flamers in which it either on an Enginner Unit which the Falls will cut down with no problem or a Sherman/Churchill Croc which is more or less should be their hard counter.

This is almost like the time where you were raving on ventrillo that Trenches were OP or something to that effect.

Just accept the fact that Vet is pretty much toned down for all factions and obviously, if you are planning to press the issue about Tommies having Vet, just sit back and think of the consquences if Tommies, Sappers, and Commandos didn't get any vet at all.

[HansVonLuk]

You Forget that they still have Soldier Armour, which reduces most small arms damage and accuacy. Pretty much it only weakness is Flamers in which it either on an Enginner Unit which the Falls will cut down with no problem or a Sherman/Churchill Croc which is more or less should be their hard counter.

This is almost like the time where you were raving on ventrillo that Trenches were OP or something to that effect.

Just accept the fact that Vet is pretty much toned down for all factions and obviously, if you are planning to press the issue about Tommies having Vet, just sit back and think of the consquences if Tommies, Sappers, and Commandos didn't get any vet at all.

When? Trenchs OP? what are you on about? please inform me?

What Im say is that FJs need there vet to be effective, but the vet they get is not good enought or the unit is to febible in it present state. Unlike tommies that already get lost of health and decent offence with and officer.

[CommanderHolt]

Never mind, it may have been someone else. (Or just you denying it   )

Anyways, on your thing about why should you get Falls in cover when you can have Volks in cover is that Falls gets bonuses in cover and they can Get FG42 and G43 which can destory infantry alot faster then Kar98 Volks can ever do.

Edit: They don't need vet to be effective at their intended role (Ambushing in cover), with vet they can act as somewhat effective Assault Infantry, but their primary purpose is still ambush.

Plus Tommies, which I will admit they are quite sturdy, have possibly the worst Rifle (Lee-Enfield) right next to the Volks Kar98.

[HansVonLuk]

Never mind, it may have been someone else. (Or just you denying it   )

Anyways, on your thing about why should you get Falls in cover when you can have Volks in cover is that Falls gets bonuses in cover and they can Get FG42 and G43 which can destory infantry alot faster then Kar98 Volks can ever do.

I know that, but the point is any unit should be incover if its aviable, but every keeps insisting that i have to be in green cover to use the FJs, fine but what happen when you fighting a flowing battle?

[jackmccrack]

Just keep them in cover. Period.

[gamesguy2]

I know that, but the point is any unit should be incover if its aviable, but every keeps insisting that i have to be in green cover to use the FJs, fine but what happen when you fighting a flowing battle?

What are you even on about?  US/Wehr/PE all have the same infantry vet, so how are PE even disadvantaged?

Falls are glass cannons, they do a ton of damage but are fairly fragile for an elite infantry unit.    You have to be careful with them is all.

[HansVonLuk]

Just keep them in cover. Period.

well if thats the case then there are useless are AIRBOURNE INFANTRY! So thats why the fucked up on Crete?  No green cover insight, if only hitler would have know this then maybe thing would have turned out different.

[HansVonLuk]

I know that, but the point is any unit should be incover if its aviable, but every keeps insisting that i have to be in green cover to use the FJs, fine but what happen when you fighting a flowing battle?

What are you even on about?  US/Wehr/PE all have the same infantry vet, so how are PE even disadvantaged?

Falls are glass cannons, they do a ton of damage but are fairly fragile for an elite infantry unit.    You have to be careful with them is all.

Because they had a diffrent vet system in VCoH and PE have the worse base infantry units. 10% on 420 hp unit is 42 hp increase, a 10% increase on a 240 HP unit is 24 hp, see the differance or do i need to put it in bold.

[CommanderHolt]

Never mind, it may have been someone else. (Or just you denying it   )

Anyways, on your thing about why should you get Falls in cover when you can have Volks in cover is that Falls gets bonuses in cover and they can Get FG42 and G43 which can destory infantry alot faster then Kar98 Volks can ever do.

I know that, but the point is any unit should be incover if its aviable, but every keeps insisting that i have to be in green cover to use the FJs, fine but what happen when you fighting a flowing battle?

Then maybe it the wrong situation for them to be in? You might want to use Assault Grenadiers and G43 LGF and vehicles if the battle is mobile. You could also use them as a fall-back force poistion to bait the enemy with some PGs right into Ambushing Falls since the enemy is being aggressive.

Also, have you tried Fg42 Falls in Inf HT? They are brutal.

[gamesguy2]

Because they had a diffrent vet system in VCoH and PE have the worse base infantry units. 10% on 420 hp unit is 42 hp increase, a 10% increase on a 240 HP unit is 24 hp, see the differance or do i need to put it in bold.

Falls have soldier armor which compensates against infantry weapons.   Against tank guns nothing short of a vet KCH squad can survive a sherman hit anyways, so it hardly matters how much hp you have.

Falls have better vet in EIR as compared to vCoH anyways.   You gain offensive as well as defensive bonuses that add up to much more, and you gain sprint for free at vet 2.

[HansVonLuk]

Never mind, it may have been someone else. (Or just you denying it   )

Anyways, on your thing about why should you get Falls in cover when you can have Volks in cover is that Falls gets bonuses in cover and they can Get FG42 and G43 which can destory infantry alot faster then Kar98 Volks can ever do.

I know that, but the point is any unit should be incover if its aviable, but every keeps insisting that i have to be in green cover to use the FJs, fine but what happen when you fighting a flowing battle?

Then maybe it the wrong situation for them to be in? You might want to use Assault Grenadiers and G43 LGF and vehicles if the battle is mobile. You could also use them as a fall-back force poistion to bait the enemy with some PGs right into Ambushing Falls since the enemy is being aggressive.

Also, have you tried Fg42 Falls in Inf HT? They are brutal.

Im not noob, what im trying to convay that unlike orther elite infantry that clock up kills and suvive to fight on, FJs struggle to do this if you use them other than in a staic role.  So basicailly there are crap elites and no bodies really cares because they dont use them.

[jackmccrack]

TONS OF PEOPLE USE THEM, L2P.

[HansVonLuk]

Because they had a diffrent vet system in VCoH and PE have the worse base infantry units. 10% on 420 hp unit is 42 hp increase, a 10% increase on a 240 HP unit is 24 hp, see the differance or do i need to put it in bold.

Falls have soldier armor which compensates against infantry weapons.   Against tank guns nothing short of a vet KCH squad can survive a sherman hit anyways, so it hardly matters how much hp you have.

Falls have better vet in EIR as compared to vCoH anyways.   You gain offensive as well as defensive bonuses that add up to much more, and you gain sprint for free at vet 2.

If the PE infantry squads where in line with WM US or CW I would aggree but as it stands now that just isnt the case.

AT the moment there isnt much "I want them becuase there good", like there is with commandos and ranger and airbourne and storms and KCH.  I thought that these elite units are where FJS should be, but as it stands at the moment they are simple sub par.

[CommanderHolt]

Im not noob, what im trying to convay that unlike orther elite infantry that clock up kills and suvive to fight on, FJs struggle to do this if you use them other than in a staic role.  So basicailly there are crap elites and no bodies really cares because they dont use them.

Maybe because unlike other Elite Infantry, they are naturally defensive and aren't meant to be bashing skulls with there enemies? All other Elite Infantry are pretty much all have either a Close-up weapon or/and AT weapon. Falls have long-range automatic weapons.