Need startup platoon set for newcomers

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[AdolfTheGreat]

Hi,

relics standard game, balancing and iditic players got annyoing, so i went here.

Now that the first steps have been taken, i found the platoon setup to be an obstacle.
Whom to equip with medikit, whom to give repair, engineers whith bunkers?, mgs?
Which units at all?
I think this is a lack in the tutorial, and would like the tutorial to offer some standard set.
Someone who wants to jump in?
Btw. in my case, i choose Wehrmacht and defensive doctrine. Hope this will work better than
Relics (e.g. demanding fuel for the 88....).

regards

[CrazyWR]

well first off, the 88 costs 225 fuel I believe.

Secondly, make sure your initial call-in is about 25 pop(or 24), and the rest of your callins are between 7-12(generally).  


I'll let someone who's played defensive recently give you suggestions for a decent build.


Also, read this thread.

[bbsmith]

You should come on vent.
69.65.25.132
3850
sp4m

[Killer344]

Go Terror btw, it's your best bet if you are a whermatch player at the moment.

[spinn72]

Defensive doctrine if you are picking it is a risky one to play.  On some maps in this mod you can set up an 88 and a few MGs around it and be unstoppable, but on some maps you cannot even set an 88 up because the map is so congested.

Terror is probably the best doctrine if you are starting out new.  It's relatively forgiving and makes your units very, very good.

[Smokaz]

Terror gets good early, and stays that way

For a completely new wehrmacht company's starting callin, I'd go with starts like this:

(Cautious campy support start)

2 x 1 shrek gren squads with medikits and grenades
2 x mg42s
1 x mortar
1 x Pak

Basically set up, scout around with grens and engage from long range with 1 the mg covering your mortar and pak, your mortar supporting the grens covering another mg.

(Mobile attack start assuming no indications of large amounts of early armor (sound in their spawn))

1 x flamepio
2 x mp40 volks with faust and medikit
1 x shrek squad with grenade and medikit
1 x upgunned puma

Scout around with volks, find some kind of 30 cal or support weapon and then draw fire with 1 volk squad and then bring the other volk squad + flamer in to kill it. Call in something to help hold ground after you have defeated some of their initial units and probably lost some in the progress pushing them off.

(Fishing Hans Bait Start)

1 x Wehr Sniper
1 x Bike
1 x Pak
1 x Flamepio with bunker and mine
1 x mg42
1 x Shrek gren with medikit and grenade

Scout ahead with bike, find out where he is. Set up your bunker with the extra 1 pop this build gives you. Put your mg42 in the bunker. Then bring out the pio to lay a mine somewhere where armor might rush your pak, which you should keep covered by the bunker. Keep the shrek gren, bike and the flame pio then covering the sniper, always moving back to the bunker if he commits infantry to the attack.

(Burninator manz infantry spam smoke attack)

1 x Shrek with medikit and grenade
1 x Shrek with medikit and grenade
1 x mp40 volks with faust medikit
3 x flamepios with mines
1 x mortar

Spot with your volks to find out where he is. Place your mines directly between where you want to fall back and where he is if you suspect he has a tank or light armor.  Pop mortar smoke right in front of him and rush in flamers while the grens stay out of sight. Mp40 volks move in from the side while any mgs or supression is distracted by the flamers. If his only got infantry, the smoke and the flamers should be able to seriously pound him and if he has tanks retreat in a patch crossing the mines. Then rush his armor with the shreks when it gets engine damage. If there's no armor, your grenadiers should be moving in to benefit from the smoke and throw a couple of nades. Watch that your mortar isnt hitting your own guys and make sure to fire more smoke if the fight drags out. If your pios get caught in the open without smoke, try to save them for another attempt.

Tank Starts

(Standard p4 start)

1 x P4 with skirts and repair
1 x Shrek gren
1 x MG
2 x Flame pios

Spot with your flame pios or shrek gren. Find out where his at gun is. Engage units not covered by the AT gun or armor to draw him out, then pounce the at gun with your infantry and move in the p4 shortly thereafter.

(Anti armor/light vehicle/low AT start)

1 x Stug with MG, skirts and repair
1 x P4 with skirts and repair
1 x Bike
1 x Flamepio with mine

Spot for your tanks with your bike. Cap ground with your flamepio. Most american or british armor starts will get raped by stug + p4, but make sure not to lose your pio to retain the ability to cap. If hes got a AT heavy start, try to lure him into splitting up or turning the AT gun the wrong way with the bike. Another way to do it is to draw some infantry based AT shots with the bike from long range and then moving in the tanks to avoid the alpha strike of his AT. If there's a opening for the flame pio, send him in but dont expect much.

(Puma Pak medikit attack. There can be no defense!)

2 x paks with medikit
2 x pumas
1 x mg42 with medikit
1 x flamepio with medikit

Find out where he is with a puma or a flame pio. Hide behind buildings with the puma if you are afraid of getting hit by at guns, but beware of stickies and piats. Split them into two groups with one group having the flamepio and the other having the mg42. Get as close as you can to him with the pio group without actually engaging and move up the the other group to pincer him. Move the flame pio and the mg42 from each their direction at once covered by each their puma. Set up the 42 to supress his infantry, move in the paks to shoot his at guns and once hes firing at the paks, send in the pumas and the flame pio to wtfpwn him.If you need more infantry, pop medikit on your pak crew, cloak it and then decrew it to unleash the fury of 6 luger men.


(Mordor attacks)

4 x volks with faust, mp40s and medikit
1 x mg42
1 x Flamepio with mine

Find out where he is, fan out all 4 squads of volks around him in at least a spred of 180 degrees and then engage him from medium range with all squads at once using medikit. Once he commits to fighting, move in the mg42 to supress him and then rush in all the volks+flamepio. If he has a vehicle or a tank, you faust him naively thinking it will do anything. Possibly bait him into the mine again. If he has a support weapons and no light vehicles, use the fausts to kill mortars and 30 cals. They can 1 shot mortars, possibly kill 30 cal members or the entire weapon in two hits. Sometimes they also kill 30 cal crew members inside buildings, but its a long shot.

[spinn72]

the best starts of all of those i'd say is the standard P4 start (there's always variation you can throw into it) and the Cautious campy support start (although an offmap artillery can really do damage).

[Smokaz]

Variations upon the P4 start. All assume you call in a p4 and then listen at his spawn for what might be coming out.

(Listening in spawn, you hear what sounds like a armor heavy start and little infantry)

1 x Swimmwagon
2 x Shrek squad

Spot and block his vehicles with your swimmwagoin. If there's no 57mm just tank his armor with 1 shrek squad and a p4 while the other shrek squad tries to come in from behind or the sides.

(P4 weardown start)

1 x Mortar
1 x Mg
1 x pak
1 x flamepio

Have the flamepio and the p4 try to find out where his position and AT is. Start mortaring him and positioning your pak to support a p4 push on his AT. Keep your pak, mg and flamepio defending each other against vehicles and infantry with the p4.

(P4 Camp start)

1 x Pak
1x mg42
1x flamepio with bunker
1 x Shrek squad with grenade and medikit

Set up position with the bunker and keep the shrek squad and the p4 covering each other. Watch out for mortars.

These are all just ideas, eventually you'll find out what you like to do yourself.

[BigDick]

- p4 with skirts and repair
- mortar
- gren with lmg + medkit
- 2x flamer pios

but u need to listen into fow if there will be armor

when there is armor replace the gren with lmg with gren with shrek (when you use shreks at all)

or like me (who dont use shreks) replace the 2 flamer pios with a pak

[Smokaz]

The p4 start is popular because its a allrounder that can deal with a wide range of targets. Its primary threat is the cheaper tank destroyers, airborne and more than 1 57mm in a starting core which will severely limit its movement and push it back. It also takes up 12 pop limiting your ability to cap the map and outmaneuver your opponent, especially if you want to play it "safe" with your p4. Tank starts are prone to mines, stickies and button which will end your start and screw up your entire plan.

I for one never play without a disabler on the field and the fact is you just CANT know where mines are without seeing them being deployed or field a 2 pop minesweeper squad. P4 starts supported by artillery or abilities can do very well, but then again what starts cannot do very well with offmap support?

Against the better players, your p4 start is not going to be impressive. I can hardly remember ever fielding a american core without a sticky, mines and at least one 57mm. You'll have to keep it in the back and wait for a opening, which works for a lot of people but can also "reward" you with ending up on the wrong side of Road to Carentan.

That said I've seen double P4 starts rape since nobody expects it from wehr. If your first in R mode this can allow you to do a complete core wipe of the other guy also buying you time to repair. Don't be surprised when that m10 forces your repairing p4 in spawn off the map though, and guarding it generally means the enemy will be outnumbering you at the front.

So by all means do a p4 start but keep in mind it is by no means the safest option out there, and the only way to play it safe with the p4 is to use it very conservatively or support it with offmaps. Infantry starts are the safest in my opinion as long as the start has what you need to defeat his units.

All tank starts are cursed by this.. 1 fuckup and its over.

[BigDick]

imho p4 start is more save than starting without

because you can not be overrun by light armor like quad+t17 or somethjng
your core can not be raped by rangers and its highly mobile compared to support weapons and cannot be suppressed compared to infantry

its a waste when facing m10 or bangbusses but thats why you need to listen if tanks arrive or just light armor

supported by mortar you can handle at guns and you can protect your stuff against light armor or infantry blobs

[fallensoldier7]

Also depends on PIV micro.  10 times out of 10 a PIV start will fail if the user has no idea what kiting, flanking, microing are.

[Skaevola]

Also depends on PIV micro.  10 times out of 10 a PIV start will fail if the user has no idea what kiting, flanking, microing are.

If you don't know what those are then ANY start will fail.

[fallensoldier7]

Blobs lol.

[spinn72]

imo P4 + Pak + 10 pop of dedicated Anti Infantry = win.   P4 is a great start because it kills literally every tank but some tank destroyers and also annihilates even the best AT infantry (cept for airborne, then its close)  Pak can deal with any really sticky situations too.

[fallensoldier7]

Can't start with that.  PIV is 12 + pak is 4 + 10 = 26.

[jackmccrack]

Fallensoldier, do this:

P4 - 12
Pak - 4
Grens w/ LMG - 5
Mortar or HMG - 4 or 3

Total 24-25

[fallensoldier7]

Yea that's pretty much what I use.

[wildsolus]

p4 + 2x KCH in a halftrack

[Groundfire]

p4 + 2x KCH in a halftrack

Cause that worked like a charm the last time we played, right? lol

Make sure you keep the halftrack near the P4 next time. lol