Light Machinegun crew

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Killer344]

Sigh, read the OP.

[CrazyWR]

Forget LMG crew.
just change pgren and asssault gren health and armor to WM gren health and armor.
then they might stand a fighting chance.

Bad Idea. With SE Group Zeal a blob of 80 hp per men squads would turn into something from laughable to something very scary.

LMG team is not like a Rifleman squad. Where Rifleman squad is mainline infantry. LMG Team is a Light machinegun team. Their mission is similar to HMG but they are more mobile, thus have easier time when rapid movement is needed. LMG42 does not fire on the move so it has to be stationary for Supression Fire to work.

Supression Fire here, is just to make blobbing less of a pain for Panzer Elite. Its a entirely new idea around here.

Sounds like a mg42, just camoflauged by the weapon lmg. I like it. What I dislike the most about PE is that I am forced into a standoff against factions with better cover disablers than me, better anti-cover weapons and often better healing. Sitting in green cover with g43s is often not plausible.

new idea...try using PE as they were designed...as an offensive faction.

[Mukip]

Just give PE infantry a +20% health increase across the board and work from there.

[Smokaz]

Forget LMG crew.
just change pgren and asssault gren health and armor to WM gren health and armor.
then they might stand a fighting chance.

Bad Idea. With SE Group Zeal a blob of 80 hp per men squads would turn into something from laughable to something very scary.

LMG team is not like a Rifleman squad. Where Rifleman squad is mainline infantry. LMG Team is a Light machinegun team. Their mission is similar to HMG but they are more mobile, thus have easier time when rapid movement is needed. LMG42 does not fire on the move so it has to be stationary for Supression Fire to work.

Supression Fire here, is just to make blobbing less of a pain for Panzer Elite. Its a entirely new idea around here.

Sounds like a mg42, just camoflauged by the weapon lmg. I like it. What I dislike the most about PE is that I am forced into a standoff against factions with better cover disablers than me, better anti-cover weapons and often better healing. Sitting in green cover with g43s is often not plausible.

new idea...try using PE as they were designed...as an offensive faction.

Good idea... on paper. Problem is that theres a limited space of the map that its worth fighting for, and pushing up further than that without somehow being able to defend it isn't predominantly a good idea. PE doesnt have the pak which needs to be charged up close by infantry to be taken out or vastly overwhelmed by allied vehicles/armor. Instead they have a marder or a 50mm vulnerable to 57mms and tanks to a much larger degree than the pak.

Let's take some simpler examples. Imagine two ranger squads or two bars charging towards a unit that cant defend itself against them. Wehr is able to either stop the attack dead by the allied player pulling back after getting succesfully supressed, or a mg/flamer combo can devastate them with minimal losses on the wehr players side if the allied player opts to charge. Assault nade squads can take on much more expensive units and support the recrewing/attrition war efforts of the wehr player. PE doesnt get any rewards for good combos. They are a slugfest faction, caught between the frailness of many of their most important units and their neverending need to charge.

- Their nades are insignificant against most units
- Their healing is just as bad as the british healing, without the possible presence of a american triage for the british and with significantly less survivable infantry than the british
- 1/3 doctrines have a T3 that gives them a anti-cover weapon (assault flammengrenadiers)
- Their supression is overall unreliable, short ranged and on paper units

[NightRain]

I've tried Group Zeal with the ultimate blobbing tactic, it works but still, as Demon said. that 3 pop unit will eventually stop it in its tracks. And another unit, mortar, can devestate the group to death while supressed. Anyway this is not about Group zeal for now. It is about Panzer Elite's lack of supression units.

As it is known. Allies have no penalties against PE when they blob. Blob is anti tank and anti infantry in one huge mob. The mob can either contain 2 RR squads and 2 Rifleman squads. Or then 2 Ranger squads with Tommies and 2 riflemen. Either way, the result is the same. Destruction.

With the Light Machinegun team that perfectly operates and suits for Panzer Elite construction (Mobile, non heavy support weaponed army). This unit can fire from halftrack- yet it can not use its SF from it. LMG42 team is pretty much a mobile one as I've said several times. 3 Panzer Grenadiers. Soldier armor health of 55. 3 pop.

Supression Fire will be their area of effect Supression tool. This would assist Panzer Elite against Hordes of infantry. Especially against a massive infantry push with everything in it. The best of all- It wont die to 2 ATG shots, 2 RR squads shot, 2 Ranger Squads shot, or for 3-4 Rifleman armed with Bazooka shot.

[crimsonrabbit]

Just give PE infantry a +20% health increase across the board and work from there.

this actually a better idea.
forget the lmg crew thing.
PE inf (excluding falls) need a health boost.

[RikiRude]

i dont even play PE, but reading the arguments, seems like a good idea, would help the PE immensely.

but here is a problem i have with PE.

sure if you have RRs or rangers PE are easier to take on, but if you are armor, i have found PE very difficult to fight. you dont have infantry squads to take on their armored AT. so a player who isn't blobbing is punished.

[Demon767]

i had 2 fireflys single handily kill 2 PE companies in one game.

[NightRain]

When ever I've fought against Armored Company I rarely see the infantry units strike in. The bars and stickies can make short work out of anythin PE has to offer.

Although Riki's concern is taken into concentration, but still Armored doctorine can use their other abilities. Not just the infantry but their vehicles. LMG team is there to help PE against hordes of infantry anything more dangerous than that leaves the squad in danger

[crimsonrabbit]

plz dont add any support like units to PE. the whole reason I play PE now is to stay away from support units, but if lmg crew thing is implemented then PE will be tainted by evil.
Stay mobile and always be around Wehr players.
You have a good idea and all NightRain, but support units will just simply destroy the meaning of mobility in the PE factions.

[Mysthalin]

i had 2 fireflys single handily kill 2 PE companies in one game.

Then someone seriously fucked up with their PE coys. I mean, OK, I can get how you may be driving your marders rear-first towards the fireflies, I can get that hotchkisses don't get in range fast enough, but how you manage to fuck up enough with the panzershreks so they don't just kill the fireflies is beyond me.

Yea and all you need is a 3pop unit to destroy that massive blob and render the T3 useless. ITS CALLED A HMG

That 3 pop unit will simply get outgunned by the riflefire(or a flamenade will be thrown at it) without it managing to deal enough damage. Hey, I've broken plenty HMG doom forts with simple panzergren + flamenade assaults. No group zeal on them, even.

And honestly, as lot of people said - PE don't really need an infantry-based mass suppression tool. Their army is geared towards offensives and mobility. Giving up a little ground so you can kill the enemy army and take twice the ground afterwards can be well worth it. I personaly think that on the defense - PE are the ultimate infantry killing faction(looking mainly at Luftwaffe with the G43s on cloaking luftwaffe ground forces and FG42 falls combination. Can also play the flakvierling card, and the MG42 scout car(once it's fixed) for SE).

What they really could use, IMO, is more emphasis on their mobility. Frankly - it doesn't really matter if your army is mobile or not, if the enemy can easily match you at that. IHTs and other light vehicles should, in my opinion, be given an overall speed buff so they can outrun greyhounds, stuarts and both staghound variants.

[NightRain]

PE itself is made of Support units, Infantry Support tank, Marder III, IHT, ATHT, Mortar halftrack, Support Scout Car. THEY ALL are support units that are mobile. The LMG team is not to Harm that mobility as I've several times stated. Its an infantry squad with LMG and SF in it. Its a mobile machinegun without the need to pack up to shoot/leave. All one has to do is be stationary to use the weapon.

If PE needs a Supression unit that isn't in a form of a halftrack but rather in a form of infantry. This will help PE in Infantry vs Infantry fights and as well AT Infantry vs Their vehicles. This new unit would assist PE to fight with themselves. Practically saying that PE needs to be with Wehrmacht, is same like saying PE is crap without Wehrmacht. In EIRR like environment that is.

A Big wave of infantry will push PE back because of lack of supression tools. A Supression tool makes blobber think twice before engaging the newly formed line. This gives a new option for PE players, they don't need to play with a Wehrmacht player all the time.

In my Opinnion PE Should be able to fend for themselves as well. Brits do well, they got a 6 pndr, a mobile MG team and a Mortar. Why can't PE get their own version of a machinegun team that suits Rapid deployment and mechanized unit theme?

What do you people think? Do PE need always a Werhmacht player or can they stand their ground on their own too? Should PE be able to Stand their ground on their own?

British Vickers Machinegun team got the SF ability and 6 pndr to stand their ground without emplacements or vehicles to destroy and damage enemy vehicles and to supress infantry.

In my suggestion and idea, the LMG team brings PE all they really lack of, Supression weapons. IHT is their only Supress unit, its not that good at it though no blob comes without AT.

PE Countering HMG is a rather hard thing. Very hard thing. A Mob can destroy the HMG easy yes. But they remain supressed when he HMG's support comes in. they come in several different Forms. Sherman, 2-1 Rifle squad. 1-2 Tommy Rangers. Bren squad(s) Crocodile maybe and so on. If your blob is 20 pop. Enemy has 17 pop left to defend that HMG´. My blob ran out of men quite soon once the HMG was dead and suppot came

[Mysthalin]

Go play against david's 3x PE team, then get back to me about PE "needing" a wehrmacht ally to be competitive.

There's more suppression tools in a PE army :
Hotchkiss Stuka barrage, Mortar HT shells(instasuppress) and the best suppression in the game : the wirblewind. There's also the flakvierling.

In my opinion : stop making PE become Werhmacht. It's a different army, with a different playstyle. An LMG team with SF would be nothing more than a grenadier on crack - noone would use them for SF. They'd load them up on the IHT, and then enjoy killing everything infantry based as they roll arround, then getting off before the IHT dies to insta-pin whatever killed the transport.

[NightRain]

Yes Mysthalin, I know. And yes I've played against ShockCoil's 9 Hetzer Company and his team mates Vet 3 Fall army. I even slaughtered one of his vet 2's once. Then the other one, uses Hotchkiss spam? 11 of those am I right? xD

And yes what you suggest is possible. 2 Squad of those. They still are Panzergrenadiers, they die to concentrated fire. Usually 1-2 men would survive inside the HT. Having 2 squads being six men. Boom, 2 2 man squads left with health of 110 or less. Kinda risky way to spend resources imo when RR/Ranger squad has a fire up to escape the instant supression. This all is nothing but mere theoricrafting. There can be so many solutions that only gameplay might show this unit's strenght and weakness. After all, its like a machinegun with a better armor and health. Fragile to its counters. Recon squad. Sniper. Tank etc

Mortar and HStuka are the only non doctorinal units. Wirble is doctorine spesific. The LMG team would be free for all

[shockcoil]

In my opinion : stop making PE become Werhmacht. It's a different army, with a different playstyle. An LMG team with SF would be nothing more than a grenadier on crack - noone would use them for SF. They'd load them up on the IHT, and then enjoy killing everything infantry based as they roll arround, then getting off before the IHT dies to insta-pin whatever killed the transport.

This.

Seriously guys, there's nothing wrong with PE. If you don't like playing without MGs maybe you should crawl back to your pussy Wher camping. Meanwhile REAL PE players will get along just fine.

[BaleWolf]

Mutters about British HMGs and ATGs when people compare making factions too similar.

[Mukip]

The British were flat-out crippled though.  PE aren't that bad, in most scenarios they are just as capable as Wehrmacht but they have a weakness to mass infantry over-fielding AT that is quite hard to overcome.  Go up against good players using lots of Airborne and Rangers in concert as double PE and it can get ridiculous.  The allied elite infantry has more firepower, staying power and get-out-of-dying-free cards than PE infantry and they also neuter the PE vehicles as the same time.  That said, I'm not sure much can be done about it without an extensive overhaul of balance which just isn't worth it when we, overall, have things pretty good.  I think a buff to the durability of PE infantry will have to do.

[Killer344]

Go play against david's 3x PE team, then get back to me about PE "needing" a wehrmacht ally to be competitive.

A team strategy would hardly mean anything to any kind of balance.... issue tbh.

[Mysthalin]

Go play against david's 3x PE team, then get back to me about PE "needing" a wehrmacht ally to be competitive.

A team strategy would hardly mean anything to any kind of balance.... issue tbh.

I'm not saying it's an issue at all. I'm just saying that the claim of PE being absolutely useless unless with a WM ally is simply wrong.

Honestly speaking - david's 9 hetzers would work fine with another PE ally. Bulivaif's double jagds were teh win with my SE account in the last patch.

[Smokaz]

Can we please bring some arguments not related to a trained trio of friends or a blatantly OP unit like the jagd?