Mini Balance Patch

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[Unkn0wn]

Following changes were made.

US
Calliope: 600 MP, 420 F (From 450 F)
Howitzer: 400 MP, 140 F (From 160 F)

Brit
Stuart: 280 MP, 50 F (From 295 MP)
Lieutenant: 155 MP, 30 Mun (From 40 Mun)
Churchill MkIV: 380 MP, 180 F (From 410 MP, 200 F)
Churchill Croc: 430 MP, 320 F (From 300 F)
Staghound MG Upgrade: 85 Mun (From 75 Mun)

Wehr


PE
Hetzer: 320 MP, 210 F (From 180 F)
Hotchkiss Stuka: 295 MP, 150 F (From 175 F)

Enjoy

[RikiRude]

aw, to sell my vet 2 calli to get 30 FU for a quad or not to sell?

[CafeMilani]

sell ofc

[Jodomar]

The church croc price at 300 was just right and I don't think it should be raised to 320. With all these axis heavy tanks rolling around it is the only thing that I find fun with the allies. The croc can be easily counter by any of the numerous axis heavies roaming the field of battle. In fact it can be stopped by 2 packs. I have played as axis against this and it really wasn't that hard to deal with. It also has disadvantages such as you can't target with it's main gun and the fact that it's main gun can't penetrate armor if its life depended on it which happens all the time, not to mention it is slow as hell. I just don't think the price increase was warranted on it.

[CafeMilani]

croc price increase was needed tbh

[CrazyWR]

No, it wasn't.

[Tymathee]

i dont think so. Just because some people found a way to use them nicely doesn't mean they were OP. Basically, just dont use schrecks and paks vs Church Crocs, but since a lot of axis use those heavily as their main AT, they complain.

[CafeMilani]

i found this 'way to use them nicely' months ago. its longrange flamethrower just roasts infantry. and paks kinda suck vs them because their chance of penetration is pretty small after the first shot. now u cant have 4 but only 3 crocs in your comapny if im not mistaken(?)
what else to use as my main AT than schrecks and paks?

[Tymathee]

i found this 'way to use them nicely' months ago. its longrange flamethrower just roasts infantry. and paks kinda suck vs them because their chance of penetration is pretty small after the first shot. now u cant have 4 but only 3 crocs in your comapny if im not mistaken(?)
what else to use as my main AT than schrecks and paks?

p4? panther? tigers? stugs? they all do pretty well vs crocs, are faster sot hey can get behind them and hit their side and rear armor,w hich btw will make them turn to try to maxximize facing, and then you can use the pak and schrecks on the rear armor. kinda the same way i beat jags with my inf company. bait with tank, make it turn, rush up with rangers, wham in the butt, they leave the tank alone usually after 8 zooks slam into their rear armor and then you hunt it down. I killed 2 jags and a king tiger this way.

[Masacree]

lawl churchill croc > p4, stug

Sure, a unit that costs like 50% more manpower and fuel (tiger or panther) will kill one. But that doesn't make it balanced.

Try again.

[bbsmith]

Croc has 900 HP. I don't think its possible for it to lose to a 1v1 fight with a Stug or P4

[Masacree]

Croc has 900 HP. I don't think its possible for it to lose to a 1v1 fight with a Stug or P4

Exactly. Churchill croc >>>>>>>>>>>> paks and schrecks

and beats p4's and stugs.

So, Tym what do you propose killing it with?

[bbsmith]

A Pak + a Stug beats it.

[Malgoroth]

what else to use as my main AT than schrecks and paks?

lol, that's what I thought. The Wehrs MAIN AT is easily shrugged off by churchill crocs unless you're fortunate enough to score rear shots, but good fuckin' luck with that. I can only fit SO many panthers in my company to counter these things. A price increase was needed.

[Killer344]

I don't think a stug would have a problem against it, the church isn't fast enough to circle strafe, its penetration vs the stug is really low. The stug can effectively penetrate its armor, but it does roast paks and schrecks for sure.

[sgMisten]

lawl churchill croc > p4, stug

Sure, a unit that costs like 50% more manpower and fuel (tiger or panther) will kill one. But that doesn't make it balanced.

Try again.

Churchill 6 pounder penetration against StuG = 0.232
Churchill 6 pounder penetration against Panzer4 = 0.406
StuG/Panzer4 penetration against Churchill = 0.58

Nobody sane who wants to get cost-effective use out of a Churchill Crocodile will get it in a straight up fight with a StuG or Panzer4. These 2 tanks are cheaper, take up less pop, and can either destroy or severely cripple the Churchill Croc.

Schrecks are poor counters against the Churchill Croc, but Pak38s ARE. Even on deflection, it's 50% damage. And if the Pak38 is attacked head-on and not flanked, the flamethrower rarely toasts the crew. Observe it next time. A churchill croc can sit there burning a pak38 from the front and the crew just will not get roasted. Often the pak38 is blown up by the 6 pounder instead of the crew being roasted.

The Pak38 will take 1/2 to 3/4 the HP of a churchill croc in such a scenario. If the churchill croc flanks, it's vulnerable to secondary AT. So you have to retreat.

[Tymathee]

I don't think a stug would have a problem against it, the church isn't fast enough to circle strafe, its penetration vs the stug is really low. The stug can effectively penetrate its armor, but it does roast paks and schrecks for sure.

thats what i was saying, the church is a slow turner, has a slow gun rotation same as the pershing. You dont attack it head on, tbh, i think some axis players are so used to being able to go head to head vs any allied tank, they forget to flank and circle strafe and all that other stuff with their tanks, they're just not used to it.

American tank vs wehr tank - flank to sides
wehr tank vs american tank - keep front facing tank, deflect shots kill tank, same with m10 and m18.

[lionel23]

Exactly, the thing can't even pick the right tank targets (Being the attack order is for the flamer), it's penetration is god awful terrible (Even the 'upgun' Churchill I used lost to a Stug head-on with more than 80% life afterwards) and its speed leaves a lot to be desired.  It's not an all powerful jadg or super explosive round tiger.  Its gun barely has any splash and can be flanked (if you flank it with a tank, either the Churchill user must face the front at the tank to not die so fast OR face is towards infantry and get rear/side-shotted by armor and ATGs).

The thing is expensive enough as it is, and its doctrine specific!  This isn't a unit open to all Brits like the Staghound, and as a doctrine unit it isn't the end-all be all of axis armies (a Tiger/Jadg is good against a lot of things, while a Church croc is no way going to take on armor of any sorts and is an infantry-only doctrine unit killer).

[tank130]

Bullshit!!!!.. Just Bullshit.
I play as PE..... The allies finally get a tank with a little kick and you nerf it. WTF... every time there is any whispering that axis heavy tanks are OP everybody bitches L2P.
It can be beat by any axis tank....so L2P

This mod is so axis biased it makes me sick!!!

[Skaevola]

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