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[cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
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Topic: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE) (Read 24709 times)
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Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #20 on:
August 05, 2010, 01:29:30 pm »
Quote from: jackmccrack on August 05, 2010, 10:41:37 am
I'd say every elite inf takes a certain strategy
Stormies - cunning
FJ - guile -
Commandos - grace
Rangers - strength
Airborne - fortitude
For Commandos you have to be graceful. Challenge yourself to keep them on the field long enough to use their ninja smoke more than once... Challenge yourself to rack up double digit kills, even if they only ambush weapons teams the whole time. They vet up easy because they always kill something. The hardest part is not getting
them killed themselves.
I've never really had a problem with Soldier Armor but maybe it's because I don't throw them against mass PE troops.
Quote from: Groundfire on August 05, 2010, 10:49:21 am
Well put. Ive always taken this approach to elite infantry myself.
now you two are just being non nonsensical.
Storm's have stealth and powerful alpha strike. (there's a reason double schreck cost so much), for surprise attack.
Ranger have durable and firepower (thompson + elite armor), for brutal combat.
AB have durability and quickness (ab armor + RR), for perform hit and run.
(design wise.....) FJ have long range firepower and cloak. They are defensive elite infantry. The FG42 keep the enemies away and use ambush to kill unsuspecting fool.
What do Commandos have? They have the Ranger's firepower but not the durability. Smoke allow them to approach a target but so can Rangers with their firepower, and the ranger's alot more durable. The ranger cost 330 mp but the have elite armor. The commandos cost even more mp but soldier's worst than elite. The commandos are glass cannon like storm but lack the cloak to approach their victim. In VCoh the commandos get bonus for being munition free- smg, but that's no longer the case.
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Groundfire
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #21 on:
August 05, 2010, 01:50:13 pm »
I never said that they were ever priced appropriately. If you wanna go make a thread about that, go do it and id back you up on it; but what you fail to mention is that for nearly if not better the same firepower as Thompson rangers, you get Mandos for 15 muni less. Muni is far more valuable than MP. Their still not priced correctly IMO but put forth all the facts before you say something is "more expensive" then something else.
But pretaining to usage, stop trying to form them into another ranger unit.
They have a specific way to be used and you are not utilizing them correctly otherwise.
Under an AT umbrella with a bit of support, commandos can weed in, eliminate most threats and retreat to the CCS under smoke, which is why they require a "grace" style of play. Their a surgical instrument instead of a slugehammer.
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deadbolt
Probably Banned
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4410
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #22 on:
August 05, 2010, 02:11:01 pm »
send mandos around in a bren and watch them pwn.
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DERDBERT
Quote from: jackmccrack on August 03, 2014, 01:58:51 pm
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He made a funny thread for bear, and got banned.
Now bear makes his own funny thread. It's unsurprisingly not funny.
Keeps died for our funny threads.
Smokaz
Honoured Member
Posts: 11418
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #23 on:
August 05, 2010, 03:15:04 pm »
Quote from: Hicks58 on August 05, 2010, 10:12:15 am
By your logic then, Riflemen are also assault squads.
Last time I checked an attempt to rush an enemy position with Riflemen meant they got ventilated or chunkified rather quickly.
The very term assault means to attack an enemy position... Doing so with rifles or a paper thin squad is questionable to put it politely. Giving Commandos rifles would make them have rifles and still be paper thin.
I'm still of the opinion that Commandos should be good at their original use rather than just making them something else. After all, isn't EiRR supposed to keep as close to vCoH stats and mechanics as possible?
I dont think rifles actually are viewed like this. When rifles attack you're like: he's probably not gonna care if he loses 5 men out of each squad, they might have nades, they might have bar supression refreshed/available.
Rifles are 190mp, you're supposed to field more than 1.0 x rifles per axis dedicated anti-infantry squad. Reason? There's no viable axis anti-infantry squad as cheap as them, so costing more they need to be able to stand their ground against cheaper infantry.
Incendentally it would be interesting to see how a luftwaffles spam company with ambush/buffs fares against riflespam since its the only inf cheaper than them and they can buy a dedicated anti-inf upgrade.
The need to field a squad extra / pop is evened out by the fact that you have the better support at upgrade, aka stickies and the cost.
«
Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 03:17:34 pm by Smokaz
»
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Hicks58
Development
Posts: 5343
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #24 on:
August 05, 2010, 04:15:41 pm »
I won't disagree that Commandos are a precision instrument...
I've used them myself and to good grace for the most part, occasional mistake permitting.
But the problem is that one cock up, and you'll lose that 165 MU very quickly. Make the same cock up with Airborne or Rangers and their combination of armour & Fire Up will get them out with few losses a lot of the time.
Tbh, I'm just expecting the only "Elite" Infantry in the game which has absolutely no AT option for itself upon deployment and one of the highest short range DPS's to perform better when they have to take a little bit of fire back.
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Quote from: brn4meplz on November 05, 2012, 10:45:05 am
I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
Quote from: Mysthalin on March 27, 2014, 04:57:09 pm
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #25 on:
August 05, 2010, 05:48:39 pm »
Hey, you are forgetting FJ =)
We're made of paper too, can't assault a position, and have no real AT. (PFaust just tickles)
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NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #26 on:
August 05, 2010, 11:52:37 pm »
Mandos with Rifles.
The only British platform that can get close (smoke) with grenades and boom that entrenchment
6 men squad that can be glider dropped. + You can safely recruit weapons you find and turn them on enemy without crying because you just lost 3 men from a 6 man 165 + nades mun squad. Oh yes you can as well democharge the place you just raided to prevent enemy from hopping back in with a trollface in their maw
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Quote from: Unkn0wn on June 05, 2011, 04:01:40 am
Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
jackmccrack
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2484
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #27 on:
August 06, 2010, 12:55:31 am »
That's what the top tier 2 Commando unlock should be! It's just placeholder at the moment. But what would the squad be named? Commando Rifle Section?
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Let's talk about PIATs in a car.
brn4meplz
Misinformation Officer
Posts: 6952
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #28 on:
August 06, 2010, 01:10:42 am »
Sten's should be an upgrade like Thompsons are for rangers. I'd make use of them. Granted they'd have the same armor as the basic British troops but pricing can fix everything
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He thinks Tactics is a breath mint
Quote from: Unkn0wn on July 31, 2012, 03:50:15 am
Wow I think that was the nicest thing brn ever posted!
Quote from: Bear on June 19, 2013, 01:24:59 pm
the pussy of a prostitute is not tight enough for destroy a condom
Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #29 on:
August 06, 2010, 01:51:21 am »
Quote from: brn4meplz on August 06, 2010, 01:10:42 am
Sten's should be an upgrade like Thompsons are for rangers. I'd make use of them. Granted they'd have the same armor as the basic British troops but pricing can fix everything
commandos with lee enfield are just basically going to be 6 men tommy squad with different upgrade and ability....
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #30 on:
August 06, 2010, 01:53:42 am »
Like FJ are PGrens with different upgrades and abilities? It helps, you get a cheap platform that can actually assault positions.
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brn4meplz
Misinformation Officer
Posts: 6952
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #31 on:
August 06, 2010, 01:56:35 am »
With the added bonus of Glider borne map entry and benefiting from Doctrinal upgrades. I'd take that in a 6 man Tommy squad anyday
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NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #32 on:
August 06, 2010, 02:02:23 am »
Petition:
Commandos comes with Rifles and Stens as a upgrade.
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=13757.0
This is an age old thing I've given out.
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Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #33 on:
August 06, 2010, 04:20:45 am »
Quote from: AmPM on August 06, 2010, 01:53:42 am
Like FJ are PGrens with different upgrades and abilities? It helps, you get a cheap platform that can actually assault positions.
and the FJ doesn't seems that powerful from what I've heard and seen(I've seen a good number of vetted 3 FJ but I never have that much problem with them). and the FJ does actually get a bit more HP IIRC. In voch atleast the FJ are actually cheaper to reinforce, but that advantage is gone in EIRR.
Quote from: brn4meplz on August 06, 2010, 01:56:35 am
With the added bonus of Glider borne map entry and benefiting from Doctrinal upgrades. I'd take that in a 6 man Tommy squad anyday
the commandos have one doctrine upgrades, the +15% hp from the red devil. and the tommies have the +25% hp upgrade from a different tree.
Just how good do you think the glide entry is. The glider is relatively easy to destroy(espeically since the gilder will take damage just from landing) and you still have to wait 60 sec.
«
Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 04:35:30 am by Firesparks
»
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brn4meplz
Misinformation Officer
Posts: 6952
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #34 on:
August 06, 2010, 04:35:59 am »
Commando's also benefit from the +1 democharge Tier 4 and glider entries are fantastic. Being able to get somewhere quickly should never be underestimated. You can start a match off with Troops exactly where you want them and planting 2x democharges per squad in a city. No one says you have to hold what you land on either.
If your intent is to drop right on the front lines then yes, you'll lose alot of commando's needlessly
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #35 on:
August 06, 2010, 04:47:36 am »
Grenadiers are basically a 4 man volks squad with more health and different upgrades. Why have them?
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EliteGren
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6106
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #36 on:
August 06, 2010, 05:11:33 am »
Wrong thread.
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Quote from: deadbolt on December 30, 2010, 09:14:16 am
i prefer to no u
Quote from: deadbolt on July 30, 2012, 08:08:48 am
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #37 on:
August 06, 2010, 05:17:37 am »
Quote from: Mysthalin on August 06, 2010, 04:47:36 am
Grenadiers are basically a 4 man volks squad with more health and different upgrades. Why have them?
more health and better weapons. The schreck and lmg are also widely different from mp40 and faust.
And We are talking about a coy unlocks, not common units.
Ranger have thompson, compare to the Browning automatic rifles, and have bazooka which the infantry doesn't even have.(and.... elite armor which make the ranger as tough as nail.
The ab rifle is just a bonus along side the AB rr , which is the real prize. (and the ab also have much more durability as well)
The storm have cloak to unleash powerful alpha strike.
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Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #38 on:
August 06, 2010, 05:24:29 am »
Quote from: brn4meplz on August 06, 2010, 04:35:59 am
Commando's also benefit from the +1 democharge Tier 4 and glider entries are fantastic. Being able to get somewhere quickly should never be underestimated. You can start a match off with Troops exactly where you want them and planting 2x democharges per squad in a city. No one says you have to hold what you land on either.
If your intent is to drop right on the front lines then yes, you'll lose alot of commando's needlessly
And without that extra demo charge where would we be? Pretty sure it's been said that units need to be balanced without regard to doctrine unlock.
And your strat would work great as a opening, but what about the rest of the game. If you didn't won the game right with the opening you would have to drop the commandos in during the battle. Frontline's too dangerous and blind drop behind enemy line isn't much better either.
AB paradrop is as good as the glider drop, and on top of that the AB troops are great troops even without the tactical consideration of paradrop.
(oops, made a double post by mistake. Can someone merge the two?)
«
Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 05:28:18 am by Firesparks
»
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: [cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)
«
Reply #39 on:
August 06, 2010, 05:52:44 am »
I still don't think you realise that the point we are making is that commandos with rifles would be used completely different to tommies with rifles...
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