[cw] Commando sten vs Soldier armor (PE)

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[Firesparks]

I'd say every elite inf takes a certain strategy

Stormies - cunning
FJ - guile -
Commandos - grace
Rangers - strength
Airborne - fortitude

For Commandos you have to be graceful. Challenge yourself to keep them on the field long enough to use their ninja smoke more than once... Challenge yourself to rack up double digit kills, even if they only ambush weapons teams the whole time. They vet up easy because they always kill something. The hardest part is not getting
them killed themselves.

I've never really had a problem with Soldier Armor but maybe it's because I don't throw them against mass PE troops.

Well put. Ive always taken this approach to elite infantry myself.

now you two are just being non nonsensical.

Storm's have stealth and powerful alpha strike. (there's a reason double schreck cost so much), for surprise attack.
Ranger have durable and firepower (thompson + elite armor), for brutal combat.
AB have durability and quickness (ab armor + RR), for perform hit and run.
(design wise.....) FJ have long range firepower and cloak. They are defensive elite infantry. The FG42 keep the enemies away and use ambush to kill unsuspecting fool.

What do Commandos have? They have the Ranger's firepower but not the durability. Smoke allow them to approach a target but so can Rangers with their firepower, and the ranger's alot more durable. The ranger cost 330 mp but the have elite armor. The commandos cost even more mp but soldier's worst than elite. The commandos are glass cannon like storm but lack the cloak to approach their victim. In VCoh the commandos get bonus for being munition free- smg, but that's no longer the case.

[Groundfire]

I never said that they were ever priced appropriately. If you wanna go make a thread about that, go do it and id back you up on it; but what you fail to mention is that for nearly if not better the same firepower as Thompson rangers, you get Mandos for 15 muni less. Muni is far more valuable than MP. Their still not priced correctly IMO but put forth all the facts before you say something is "more expensive" then something else.

But pretaining to usage, stop trying to form them into another ranger unit.
They have a specific way to be used and you are not utilizing them correctly otherwise.

Under an AT umbrella with a bit of support, commandos can weed in, eliminate most threats and retreat to the CCS under smoke, which is why they require a "grace" style of play. Their a surgical instrument instead of a slugehammer.

[deadbolt]

send mandos around in a bren and watch them pwn.

[Smokaz]

By your logic then, Riflemen are also assault squads.

Last time I checked an attempt to rush an enemy position with Riflemen meant they got ventilated or chunkified rather quickly.

The very term assault means to attack an enemy position... Doing so with rifles or a paper thin squad is questionable to put it politely. Giving Commandos rifles would make them have rifles and still be paper thin.

I'm still of the opinion that Commandos should be good at their original use rather than just making them something else. After all, isn't EiRR supposed to keep as close to vCoH stats and mechanics as possible?

I dont think rifles actually are viewed like this. When rifles attack you're like: he's probably not gonna care if he loses 5 men out of each squad, they might have nades, they might have bar supression refreshed/available.

Rifles are 190mp, you're supposed to field more than 1.0 x rifles per axis dedicated anti-infantry squad. Reason? There's no viable axis anti-infantry squad as cheap as them, so costing more they need to be able to stand their ground against cheaper infantry.

Incendentally it would be interesting to see how a luftwaffles spam company with ambush/buffs fares against riflespam since its the only inf cheaper than them and they can buy a dedicated anti-inf upgrade.

The need to field a squad extra / pop is evened out by the fact that you have the better support at upgrade, aka stickies and the cost.

[Hicks58]

I won't disagree that Commandos are a precision instrument...

I've used them myself and to good grace for the most part, occasional mistake permitting.

But the problem is that one cock up, and you'll lose that 165 MU very quickly. Make the same cock up with Airborne or Rangers and their combination of armour & Fire Up will get them out with few losses a lot of the time.

Tbh, I'm just expecting the only "Elite" Infantry in the game which has absolutely no AT option for itself upon deployment and one of the highest short range DPS's to perform better when they have to take  a little bit of fire back.

[AmPM]

Hey, you are forgetting FJ =)

We're made of paper too, can't assault a position, and have no real AT. (PFaust just tickles)

[NightRain]

Mandos with Rifles.

The only British platform that can get close (smoke) with grenades and boom that entrenchment

6 men squad that can be glider dropped. + You can safely recruit weapons you find and turn them on enemy without crying because you just lost 3 men from a 6 man 165 + nades mun squad. Oh yes you can as well democharge the place you just raided to prevent enemy from hopping back in with a trollface in their maw

[jackmccrack]

That's what the top tier 2 Commando unlock should be! It's just placeholder at the moment. But what would the squad be named? Commando Rifle Section?

[brn4meplz]

Sten's should be an upgrade like Thompsons are for rangers. I'd make use of them. Granted they'd have the same armor as the basic British troops but pricing can fix everything

[Firesparks]

Sten's should be an upgrade like Thompsons are for rangers. I'd make use of them. Granted they'd have the same armor as the basic British troops but pricing can fix everything

commandos with lee enfield are just basically going to be 6 men tommy squad with different upgrade and ability....

[AmPM]

Like FJ are PGrens with different upgrades and abilities? It helps, you get a cheap platform that can actually assault positions.

[brn4meplz]

With the added bonus of Glider borne map entry and benefiting from Doctrinal upgrades. I'd take that in a 6 man Tommy squad anyday

[NightRain]

Petition:

Commandos comes with Rifles and Stens as a upgrade.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=13757.0

This is an age old thing I've given out.

[Firesparks]

Like FJ are PGrens with different upgrades and abilities? It helps, you get a cheap platform that can actually assault positions.

and the FJ doesn't seems that powerful from what I've heard and seen(I've seen a good number of vetted 3 FJ but I never have that much problem with them). and the FJ does actually get a bit more HP IIRC. In voch atleast the FJ are actually cheaper to reinforce, but that advantage is gone in EIRR.

With the added bonus of Glider borne map entry and benefiting from Doctrinal upgrades. I'd take that in a 6 man Tommy squad anyday

the commandos have one doctrine upgrades, the +15% hp from the red devil. and the tommies have the +25% hp upgrade from a different tree.
Just how good do you think the glide entry is. The glider is relatively easy to destroy(espeically since the gilder will take damage just from landing) and you still have to wait 60 sec.

[brn4meplz]

Commando's also benefit from the +1 democharge Tier 4 and glider entries are fantastic. Being able to get somewhere quickly should never be underestimated. You can start a match off with Troops exactly where you want them and planting 2x democharges per squad in a city. No one says you have to hold what you land on either.

If your intent is to drop right on the front lines then yes, you'll lose alot of commando's needlessly

[Mysthalin]

Grenadiers are basically a 4 man volks squad with more health and different upgrades. Why have them?

[EliteGren]

Wrong thread.

[Firesparks]

Grenadiers are basically a 4 man volks squad with more health and different upgrades. Why have them?

more health and better weapons. The schreck and lmg are also widely different from mp40 and faust.

And We are talking about a coy unlocks, not common units.

Ranger have thompson, compare to the Browning automatic rifles, and have bazooka which the infantry doesn't even have.(and.... elite armor which make the ranger as tough as nail.

The ab rifle is just a bonus along side the AB rr , which is the real prize. (and the ab also have much more durability as well)

The storm have cloak to unleash powerful alpha strike.

[Firesparks]

Commando's also benefit from the +1 democharge Tier 4 and glider entries are fantastic. Being able to get somewhere quickly should never be underestimated. You can start a match off with Troops exactly where you want them and planting 2x democharges per squad in a city. No one says you have to hold what you land on either.

If your intent is to drop right on the front lines then yes, you'll lose alot of commando's needlessly

And without that extra demo charge where would we be? Pretty sure it's been said that units need to be balanced without regard to doctrine unlock.

And your strat would work great as a opening, but what about the rest of the game. If you didn't won the game right with the opening you would have to drop the commandos in during the battle. Frontline's too dangerous and blind drop behind enemy line isn't much better either.

AB paradrop is as good as the glider drop, and on top of that the AB troops are great troops even without the tactical consideration of paradrop.

(oops, made a double post by mistake. Can someone merge the two?)

[Mysthalin]

I still don't think you realise that the point we are making is that commandos with rifles would be used completely different to tommies with rifles...