Radical idea to reduce the benefit of blobbing

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[Smokaz]

Make open/ "default" cover worse!

Its simply really. For those of you who ever browsed the now outdated and closed down cohstats, you might have checked out the explanation of cover modifiers.

The default cover is what you have when you are in the open.

One way to go about doing this, is to just increase the supression modifier to 1.25, perhaps received accuracy to 1.25. (its 1 - 1 in eirr and vcoh)

It would be fun to check out how this affected infantry in the open. I've always thought it was strange how unit's in the open didn't get "true" penalties, only red cover roads give those.

It's a fact that blobs spend the majority of their time traversing open cover - a tactic that while punishable, usually makes for ugly and strategically simple gameplay.

I think it's a notion shared by many eirr players, that moving around in EIRR is not that dangerous even when you are taking fire from units sitting still in their own cover.

Alternatively, you could introduce accuracy bonuses from firing from cover. This could also make using cover more powerfuls, and blobs less.

[AmPM]

This is true, would require looking over some maps again though to make sure enough cover is in place to allow for gameplay. Might also warrant a reduction in cost of assault troops.

Would be fun to try for sure though.

[Smokaz]

This is true, would require looking over some maps again though to make sure enough cover is in place to allow for gameplay. Might also warrant a reduction in cost of assault troops.

Would be fun to try for sure though.

Even if all maps weren't perfect for the change - imo most maps got good cover- this would make the units able to construct cover more powerful.

Knowing our playerbase - it wouldn't slow down the game that much. But it would reduce the effiency of alot of illogical abilities, that rape in the open: like assault nade-type of abilities, fireup etc.

[AmPM]

Agreed, SMGs might need tweaking, but other than that not huge changes. Both HMGs would suppress really well.

[Hicks58]

Don't forget about Armour people...

AC's especially are going to become even bigger rape machines if such a change were made, so consider all the variables before diving into it. >.>

[Smokaz]

Oh lul hicks, people are going to try to find all kinds of holes in this to shoot it down, its how this forum works, we shoot at people:

Don't forget about Armour people...

AC's especially are going to become even bigger rape machines if such a change were made, so consider all the variables before diving into it. >.>

You seriously saying that either allies or axis would gain some undue advantage for one side, with a global buff? All 4 sides have something that rapes in the open: Ac, stag, m8, Puma.

The effect you are talking about would make the design of the maps mean more. Open areas wouldn't be the parties they are for lots of inf. It would be where tanks moved around - while infantry would stick to more closed off spaces or open areas with - DRUM DRUM DRUM - haystacks!!

[Illegal_Carrot]

Good idea, but but that suppression modifier won't mean jack when that blob uses Fire Up.

[Mysthalin]

It would also unintentionally reduce the effectiveness of units that DON'T run around in blobs - but have to traverse open cover to, for instance, take out an HMG position. Even if it would maintain the same overall balance of infantry - MGs would become disproportionately buffed.

How about, instead, we just take the pioblob modifier and change it into actually noticeable recieved accuracy/damage/suppression? Make it a low base rate of 1.05, and give each infantry unit an in-built rec. acc/dmg /sup modifier to counteract the flat rate if it's just the one squad walking about(that is, if it's impossible to make the blob modifier kick in only at a certain point).

It would mean that as base in ones - the units would retain their original strength, but their recieved damage would scale dramatically upwards the more units are blobbed.

[brn4meplz]

The best way to stop blobbing is just have everything use a Higher Incremental Accuracy modifier.

[Mysthalin]

True, but at some points - higher incremental accuracy just doesn't matter anymore(close range, for instance) - and can be offset by the sheer increase of DPS by adding another squad.

[Smokaz]

True, but at some points - higher incremental accuracy just doesn't matter anymore(close range, for instance) - and can be offset by the sheer increase of DPS by adding another squad.

Seems like it would have a isolated positive effect without raping much else

[Groundfire]

It would also unintentionally reduce the effectiveness of units that DON'T run around in blobs - but have to traverse open cover to, for instance, take out an HMG position. Even if it would maintain the same overall balance of infantry - MGs would become disproportionately buffed.

How about, instead, we just take the pioblob modifier and change it into actually noticeable recieved accuracy/damage/suppression? Make it a low base rate of 1.05, and give each infantry unit an in-built rec. acc/dmg /sup modifier to counteract the flat rate if it's just the one squad walking about(that is, if it's impossible to make the blob modifier kick in only at a certain point).

It would mean that as base in ones - the units would retain their original strength, but their recieved damage would scale dramatically upwards the more units are blobbed.

I like mysthalin's idea.

This is the one we should experiment with. Turning all default cover into negative cover isnt the answer imo. MGs and splash weapons are disporportionatly buffed with no increased survivablilty to units belonging to players who do move their troops correctly.

Everyone gets punished, blob or no blob and supportweaps spam and stuff like ostwinds and ACs become too powerful. Bascially large spalsh, and high ROF weapons become too good.

Just make the anti-pio blob nerf apply to everyone and have it be noticable.

[Illegal_Carrot]

I think instead of going one or the other, a slight mix of both world work best. Give open cover 1.05 - 1.10 damage/suppression modifiers, and all units slight Pio modifiers, as well.
It'd encourage the use of cover more (in all units, not just blobs), and still fight blobbing very effectively.
Too much of one or the other, though, and you begin to punish single units.

[Mysthalin]

Thing is, open cover nerfing is also an indirect boost to some units unintentionally. For instance - G43s become overall more effective because they have slightly better modifiers vs green and garrison cover than other units. Encouraging cover-to-cover stand-off will make G43s overall a better unit.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Thing is, open cover nerfing is also an indirect boost to some units unintentionally. For instance - G43s become overall more effective because they have slightly better modifiers vs green and garrison cover than other units. Encouraging cover-to-cover stand-off will make G43s overall a better unit.

Ahh.. It's good to keep an eye on things like this, but I don't know how big of an issue it'd really be. The 5-10% extra damage in the open wouldn't be that alarming at all, just enough to better encourage the use of cover.
But really, given the choice between using cover and staying in the open, *any* player would stick their units in cover. It's not really even a factor, as those single units would be in cover anyways.
And again, it comes down to the fact that most blobs simply cannot even fit into proper cover, and that most blobbers don't use cover in the first place.

[Tymathee]

Interesting.

the carbine gets 1.25 acc and 1.25 dmg vs infantry in open cover (this is AB gun)

and its the same for negative except the suppression is 1.5

and its the same thing for the hmg...so there's really no need to change, there's already a buff over 100% acc/dmg vs units in open.

but there's a default cover and if that's the cover that is always used when there's no shield, then yeah that's all 1.0, so maybe all default should be changed to open cover?

[puddin]

So then support wepon spam will come back ....

if you take more dmg and or supression in open cover getting rid of the HMG will be that much harder...

So support spam will return... yay... oh yay... Because thats just as fun as seeing massive blobs... LEts creat 2 maginot lines with indirect fire and arty wars

[Illegal_Carrot]

Open cover is what's used. IIRC, Default cover isn't actually used anywhere in the game.

[Spartan_Marine88]

So then support wepon spam will come back ....

Axis support spam IS back

[AmPM]

Again, 4 HMGs is not support spam for a company...its normal.

2 Mortars is normal.

4 ATGs is low for allies, normal for axis.