[PE] Hummel spread fix

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[AmPM]

Why do you need mobility? Its artillery, who cares if they want to use a ton of their stuff pushing to it.

Its cheap.

It's range is more than long enough with Super Charged rounds.

The damage is more than enough to kill infantry and support weapons leaving the inferior axis armor to be killed.

[Jodomar]

25 pounder with precision munitions in my opinion is way better then the priest. I have tried both and I kill more with the 25 pounder then the priest with precision munitions. Plus i can field the armor I want and still have enough accurate arty to back me up. Precision munitions seem to turn my 25 pounder into a homing missile launcher of doom. Every time I fire that thing I always hit what I am aiming for no matter what. With the priest it would still miss plus I wouldn't be able to run as many tanks. The hummel sucks with its normal barrage but the Incendiary effect is pretty awesome. Whats even better is the hotchkiss stuka with Incendiary effect to bad they haven't fixed the bug for it yet that makes it work only every now and then.

[VERTIGGO]

The damage is more than enough to kill infantry and support weapons leaving the inferior axis armor to be killed.

That's ignoring the whole picture though, it's only 125 if the shell lands exactly on target. The damage number is only the base off which splash is calculated, so the priest with 200 dmg explosion does 125 dmg much farther from center than the 25lber does.

[AmPM]

While true, most infantry have HP somewhere in the 50-80 range. So 125 is complete overkill anyway.

Even half damage is enough to decrew a weapon, or kill volks/PGrens/Rifles/Mando/Tommy etc. In most cases it will be higher than that, killing Grens, Stormies, Rangers, etc as well.

It would be like if the Jadgtiger did 2000 damage per shot, and the Jadgpanther only did 1500.

Sure, one is less, but both kill just about everything in one hit.

[VERTIGGO]

Mate you're still missing my point. For a 25lber, distance from impact and damage dealt:
1m  187.5
4m  93.75
7m  37.5

So unless you're right on the squad, grenadiers aren't even half dead, let alone PaK cannons, etc. The Priest however:

1m  300
3m  150
7m  60

At max range, fresh grenadiers and storms my barely survive but anything else, i.e. crewmen or volks are toast. When you look at the difference in circles of radius 4 and radius 7, its almost twice the area of instant kill.

Also, and of course not getting into target tables and spread, the American howitzer's and PE Hummel's stats are almost identical to that of the Priest.

[AmPM]

Indeed. Now check this part out.

For the Pop and cost of a Priest, I can get 2 25pdr on the field.

Also, 4m is a pretty big spread, so yea, anything that round is near will die basically. Even at 7m its good damage.

This gives me far more flexibility in where I fire, allows me to engage on 2 points at once, and god forbid I have Creeping on them both if I want to stop an assault somewhere on the map.

"Quantity has a Quality all of it's own"

This is why volks/rifle swarms are so effective, and why mass spam is better than a single elite unit.

[NightRain]

Priests sucks they are so expensive and you constantly have to quiver in fear incase of Stormies because once there are stormies out there, your priest has to retreat or lose vet. Vet on 25Pdrs is as good as vet on flamethrower engineer. Helps somewhat but still dies like flies

[VERTIGGO]

lol I agree with that, having twice as many guns is better. Of course that's a totally different debate.

[AmPM]

It is not a different debate, it's an inherent part of asking which is better. Ultimately, the 25lbr is a better weapon.

[VERTIGGO]

So you could say using 25lbers in your company is better, but logically, the very fact that you are replacing one Priest with multiple 25lbers is evidence that they are inferior weapons. All other things like range, durability, mobility, and abilities being equal (though of course they are not), the 25lber would be a better choice.

[AmPM]

The better weapon is the one that provides the most benefits, in this case, the 25lbr because you can either use 1 to bust up the enemy line, and still have more pool for support, or 2 for more firepower than a priest, with similar durability but lacking mobility.

It's like the Panther, good tank, highly mobile; however, due to pricing and pop, the m10 is a much better tank destroyer.

[VERTIGGO]

In your opinion the 25 and M10 are the better weapons, I just disagree on both accounts. I value survivability and damage over cost and pop. In this case it's really just a difference of priorities.

[Mysthalin]

To all extents and purposes I'd be inclined to agree the Panther is likely overpriced in the price-range of around 50 fuel and 1 popcap. It's hardly got enough firepower and health to be worth giving up 2 entire P4s over.

[AmPM]

In your opinion the 25 and M10 are the better weapons, I just disagree on both accounts. I value survivability and damage over cost and pop. In this case it's really just a difference of priorities.

Panther and M10 guns are comparable, directly. Lets examine not HP, but the number of hits each can take.

M10 has 400 HP, so 5 P4 shots roughly to kill.

Panther has 700 HP, or 8 Upgun Sherman shots.

However, let us look at costs.

Panther is 2.5 times the FU price of an M10, 5 more Pop, and higher in both Munitions and Manpower not to mention pool value.

Your argument is like saying the KT is the best armored vehicle because it does the most DPS with its gun, has some hull MGs and takes a lot of hits. But you don't look at things like lack of mobility or pop restrictions forcing a lack of supporting units.

[Firesparks]

Panther and M10 guns are comparable, directly. Lets examine not HP, but the number of hits each can take.

M10 has 400 HP, so 5 P4 shots roughly to kill.

Panther has 700 HP, or 8 Upgun Sherman shots.

However, let us look at costs.

Panther is 2.5 times the FU price of an M10, 5 more Pop, and higher in both Munitions and Manpower not to mention pool value.

Your argument is like saying the KT is the best armored vehicle because it does the most DPS with its gun, has some hull MGs and takes a lot of hits. But you don't look at things like lack of mobility or pop restrictions forcing a lack of supporting units.

you forgot that the most of those 76mm shot will just bounce off the panther armor while the p4 shot will penetrate everytime.

[VERTIGGO]

Exactly... it's not even a debate anymore, it's merely my opinion.

If you are trying to build a solid argument that the M10 is absolutely the better of the two, you can't just compare two aspects of the weapons, ignoring all others like target tables, number of vehicles to micro (you're not actually going to use just 1 M10 in place of a Panther).

I don't personally view the KT as the most desirable tank, but many do, due to it's incredible longevity under fire and, like you said, dps. If there's any argument that I'm making, it's that I prefer the stats and abilities of the Panther. Though I'm not sure why it's so important that my preference is seen as foolish.

[AmPM]

You also forget that the M10 makes a viable anti Infantry vehicle, whereas the Panther does not.

[DarkSoldierX]

Woops, i thought I joined the [PE] Hummel spread fix thread, guess I need reading glasses.

[Unkn0wn]

Yea, get back on topic gents.

[Firesparks]

what spread? according to corsix scatter is same as 105.

are you looking at the right one?