[CW] The Firefly vs PE.

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[LeoPhone]

FFs should be used just against heavies. don't call it out unless you see one. that is what makes it balanced price wise and pop wise since the heavies cost even more recourse & pop.

actually even vs PIVs and stugs it will do kinda fine.


and if u buff FF vs 50mms and marders that will remove any counter the PE has vs FFs.

[nugnugx]

my post was removed but it was the most appropiate for this thread *sigh*


You don't counter a 50mm and marder with FF but with piats ,  and the rest just dies to FF.

FF should die to 50mm and marder if anything at all , because they are mobile anti tank guns.

[rifle87654]

Make fireflies have the ability to snipe infantry effectively.
Win long range fights against atgs.

[nugnugx]

Smokaz where are you when you are needed.......

I call upon thee

[Smokaz]

Why is this a good idea? It makes no sense. Doesnt buff it vs firefly, but makes marders even better vs m8s, stags and whatnot.

There's nothing wrong with the firefly vs PE. You get almost perfect penetration vs all of its intended targets, it deals good damage and you free up munitions for other stuff. Its a choice. Not everyone grabs a m10 for AT either if their doctrine doesnt buff m10 and their munitions based AT is buffed.

Smokaz where are you when you are needed.......

I call upon thee

Look at timings, truly I am a celestial event, impeccable in timing and rotation.


Unkn0wn edit: removed unnecessary flamebait

[Unkn0wn]

Should also use a CCT to get the most out of your Firefly.

[nugnugx]

Look at timings, truly I am a celestial event, impeccable in timing and rotation.

We should thank the heavens and the stars for bringing us our eir superhero

Unkn0wn edit: Don't use irrelevant images in the balance forum...
A 'bat signal' image is not an important part of the discussion, and it's certainly not relevant to anyone but you and Smokaz.

[Hicks58]

Hrm.

I suppose the thread was worth it just to watch you all jump at it like ravenous dogs that haven't eaten for days.

I'm not even going to reply to Dick due to his staggering amount of displayed ignorance...

I never once said that the FF needs incredible buffs, I never said nerf the crap out of opposing factions, I never said I'm going to exclusively use FF's and expect them to rape face.

I will in fact be using alternative options to the FF, but tbh, It's saddening as the FF is a rather nice tank that's lost It's use over time during EiRR.

Oh and btw people, I rather like playing Axis too these days.

To round it off... I do find it interesting that not one of you have bothered to compare the FF's cost effectiveness against other platforms both Allied and Axis.

[nugnugx]

I do find it interesting that not one of you have bothered to compare the FF's cost effectiveness against other platforms both Allied and Axis.

FF beats almost any axis tank due to its range and penetration, you can take on a tiger no problem.
It's not supposed to be a heavy armored tank like pershing or panther.  It has a great gun which you snipe from range and its lightly armored. Think of it as a sniper tank.

[Hicks58]

Sigh. I've said nothing about WM and already said It's fine against them.

I never said it was supposed to be heavily armoured, and I already know that it is a glass cannon to which you snipe with.

[nugnugx]

so what's the problem ?

[Hicks58]

Try reading the first post. Not glance at it, not see a few words that you think look pretty - Read it.

[nugnugx]

A Marder III which is in comparison 140 Fuel and 6 pop can completely lock down a FF if the Marder uses the fact that it can match the FF's max range, and it can lock down.

Marder has 375 health , Firefly 550
Marder does not have turret, Firefly does
Marder does not always penetrate a firefly, Firefly penetrates pretty much anything
Marder is a dedicated anti-tank gun,  Firefly is a medium tank with good gun. If you catch a marder off guard,  you can just circle it, saying this , enganging a marder with firefly is a big mistake.

50mm HT's now have the stats of Pak38's, and are speedy enough to take a shot and back off.

50mm has less health, gun damage , gun penetration , gun reload than marder.

If either of these units are paired up (2 Marders, 2 50mm's, one of each...), and likely will be, they will STILL be a cheaper investment than the Firefly... And be equal or less pop than it.

Yes and they are supposed to kill firefly and it's as it's supposed to be. If you have 2 Fireflys you will kill a marder , isn't it surprising ?

Now you can argue, the Marder and 50mm HT's are tank hunters, but... Isn't that what the FF is? A supposedly high quality one, to which I'm in doubt of now.

They are anti-tank guns , not tank hunters. A jagpanther , m10 is a tank hunter and panther aswell you could say.


If you meet 2 marders or 2 50mm with a firefly and fight with them , you are supposed to die , that's it.

[Killer344]

nug....... damn, you didn't even bother to read the title lols.

[BigDick]

I'm not even going to reply to Dick due to his staggering amount of displayed ignorance...
...

To round it off... I do find it interesting that not one of you have bothered to compare the FF's cost effectiveness against other platforms both Allied and Axis.

actually i did read your first post very mindful

and to follow your comparison between firefly and marder i suggested to give it the same armor type
to make it more comparative the marder would need a turret and the pe some AT guns thats true

[Hicks58]

Marder has 375 health , Firefly 550
Marder does not have turret, Firefly does
Marder does not always penetrate a firefly, Firefly penetrates pretty much anything
Marder is a dedicated anti-tank gun,  Firefly is a medium tank with good gun. If you catch a marder off guard,  you can just circle it, saying this , enganging a marder with firefly is a big mistake.

50mm has less health, gun damage , gun penetration , gun reload than marder.
Yes and they are supposed to kill firefly and it's as it's supposed to be. If you have 2 Fireflys you will kill a marder , isn't it surprising ?
They are anti-tank guns , not tank hunters. A jagpanther , m10 is a tank hunter and panther aswell you could say.


If you meet 2 marders or 2 50mm with a firefly and fight with them , you are supposed to die , that's it.

Marder is less than half the price fuel AND pop.
Marder is pop efficient enough to be sat behind something else making the need for a turret less of an issue.
Marder will consistently penetrate the FF, your simply unlucky if it doesn't.
The FF is not a medium tank with a good gun, It's a sniper as you said yourself.
Circling a Marder at point blank will take 25-30 seconds to kill it from full health considering the hilariously slow reload of a FF at point blank range. Plenty of time to send help.
Engaging something half your price in every respect should not be a mistake. A panther can kick the crap out of a single M10 consistently. (To compare the only Axis *Tank* with the same range and penetration - More or less)

FF gun damage isn't all that impressive, and the huge reload offsets any advantage it might have there.

2 FF should bloody well kill a Marder, that's 640 Fuel and 24 pop of pure AT right there.

2 Marders is 280 Fuel and 12 pop... Equal pop and LESS fuel than a FF, and will rape it. Which I dare say I expect, BUT, a single Marder will put a ridiculous amount of pain on a FF, as will a 50mm. Now that they are used so frequently... Do the math.

[BigDick]

Marder is less than half the price fuel AND pop.

wait you say the marder is cheap thats why it can be crappy...
and otherwise you want something changed on firefly?
so you want replace the firefly with an exact copy of the marder at marders pricing?

Marder will consistently penetrate the FF, your simply unlucky if it doesn't.

actually thats not true a marder without lock down bounces on sherman armored fireflys slightly more often than it penetrates

to throw some numbers at u

49.41895% at operating range

66.7155825% with lockdown buffs applied

The FF is not a medium tank with a good gun, It's a sniper as you said yourself.

actually its durability is like a medium tank (sherman armor with slightly less HP than shermans and a big longrange gun)
actually considering its range its durability is far superior to other medium tanks

[smurfORnot]

+ it can crush inf,which marder cant.

[Unkn0wn]

On the subject of its huge reload time, keep in mind we lowered reload from 8.5 to 7.5 last patch.

[nugnugx]

also note the FF can be used with CCT



and idk if this has been changed for EIR , but in normal vcoh , FF has a multiplier that makes it reload faster from long range (it was specialy made like this to counter panther , which FF would win from long range and loose from close range)

The FF is not a medium tank with a good gun, It's a sniper as you said yourself.

medium sniper tank , ok now ?


You can call it a step above upgunned sherman