Home
Forum
Search
Login
Register
Account
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
November 08, 2024, 05:08:03 am
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Resources
Leaderboards
Unit Price Lists
Map List
Launcher status:
Players in chat: 2
Battles in progress:
Battles waiting:
Download the mod from Steam
Join our Discord server
Recent posts
LS-DREAMS DOWNLOAD GOLDBE...
by
thinhdqt1291
[
Yesterday
at 02:30:18 pm]
Испытайте зах...
by
Fatimaciz
[November 06, 2024, 03:32:19 pm]
RINDEX YANDEX DISK RINDEX...
by
JRodriguez17
[November 06, 2024, 05:29:25 am]
Hello, New guy in the mod
by
JRodriguez17
[November 06, 2024, 05:28:38 am]
Please dont open this th...
by
Olazaika1
[November 01, 2024, 12:46:37 pm]
Required age ratings for ...
by
Unkn0wn
[October 05, 2024, 07:29:20 am]
50 minutes cap victory
by
Olazaika1
[September 05, 2024, 01:54:13 pm]
Feedback
by
Olazaika1
[July 16, 2024, 11:30:34 pm]
Anyone here still alive?
by
Olazaika1
[June 22, 2024, 06:49:40 am]
very glad to be signing u...
by
Olazaika1
[March 08, 2024, 12:13:38 am]
Awards
2007
Mod of the Year
Editor's Choice
2008
Most Innovative Multiplayer
Nominee
Want to help promote Europe In Ruins? It's as easy as clicking here once a day!
Why?
COH: Europe In Ruins
>
Forum
>
EIR Main Forums
>
Balance & Design
>
[PE] PzGren Changes
Pages:
1
...
5
6
[
7
]
8
9
...
12
Go Down
Print
Author
Topic: [PE] PzGren Changes (Read 57934 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Nevyen
Honoured Member
Posts: 2365
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #120 on:
February 08, 2011, 12:45:07 am »
As a cumulative factor with the meta game and other game variables it probably does.
Logged
cloud234
EIR Veteran
Posts: 363
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #121 on:
February 08, 2011, 12:57:27 am »
Quote from: Groundfire on February 07, 2011, 10:07:36 pm
Ultimately, I think Shockcoil and Panda would've done better that game if they hadnt LoLcharged every vehicle/sherman with their AT grenade Pgrens and properly supported them with an earlier jadg or panthers. They exhausted themselves too quickly instead of playing smart. City side of Neunen didnt see any action all game. It was all muscle.
Well, we were putting a lot of pressure on them. Their strategy of charging with AT Grenades was good actually. Without that, I would be happily massacring all their PzGrens with my tanks.
Quote from: Groundfire on February 07, 2011, 10:07:36 pm
Tbh, were the PE changes not in effect, then this could've gone very wrong for you cloud. But what I saw was that when Pgrens played in cover, rifles died. When rifles played in cover, Pgrens died and the unit exchanged dmg at a more acceptable rate, and BARs became useful instead of the least cost effective option rifles have vs. PE.
I would say, I played the way I did because I knew the effects of the changes. While rifles received an improvement in performance against PzGrens, the improvement are not significant enough for them to instantly steamroll PzGrens... though the improvement in BAR capability is... shocking at the very minimum.
Useful is an understatement. I'll never go to battle without BARs now because they effectively shuts down the PE inf completely.
Logged
Firesparks
Honoured Member
Posts: 1209
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #122 on:
February 08, 2011, 01:08:50 am »
Quote from: cloud234 on February 08, 2011, 12:43:08 am
Interestingly, the only difference between Grenadiers and PzGrens is the suppression recovery rate of 0.008 and 0.007 on COH Stats. Does this make a world of difference? Perhaps?
http://picly.us/coh/basics/suppression.html
and the PG are a bit harder to pin.
Logged
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #123 on:
February 08, 2011, 01:52:29 am »
so, bars can finally kill pzgrens like they kill volks and grens, sounds good to me.
Logged
Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #124 on:
February 08, 2011, 01:55:07 am »
Quote from: bayarea510 on February 07, 2011, 11:33:07 pm
MG rip pg to pieces now...
which is how it should be. pz shouldn't be on par with elite infantry in automatic weapon avoidable, they're base infantry.
i dont think flammens were changed tho and they shouldn't. keep their hp at 55 and soldier armor.
Logged
NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #125 on:
February 08, 2011, 02:46:06 am »
Very well, their suppression recovery could be buffed to match Grenadiers even if it isn't much :p
Flammengrenadiers still have Airborne Armor it has been stated so many times before Tym.
In all honesty. The worst part is 3x Bared Riflemen from tier 3. Gotta say, they tear every Pzgren squad to shreds. Adapting to the BAR army is forceful thing but using fuel on AI as PE is...not exactly reliable because of a certain thing that goes by name 57mm Anti Tank Gun. In all effectiveness fuel based units are in danger when this is on the field. So saying that PE has to rely on vehicle based Anti infantry because their Infantry Anti infantry sucks is quite bad. ACs get two shotted and so do halftracks. Hell Scout Cars get RAPED by bars.
Relying on AC sniping at them at long range seems to be only thing. Gotta try it out once to see how well they perform as 'snipers'. I'd use LATHTs but they perform better as a support unit to a marder because of their fragile nature toward BARs (Their armor is still the same which means 2x BAR squads will rape it)
Logged
Quote from: Unkn0wn on June 05, 2011, 04:01:40 am
Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
cloud234
EIR Veteran
Posts: 363
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #126 on:
February 08, 2011, 05:20:40 am »
Quote from: NightRain on February 08, 2011, 02:46:06 am
In all honesty. The worst part is 3x Bared Riflemen from tier 3. Gotta say, they tear every Pzgren squad to shreds. Adapting to the BAR army is forceful thing but using fuel on AI as PE is...not exactly reliable because of a certain thing that goes by name 57mm Anti Tank Gun.
Weighted average effectiveness: 21.21%*0.5 + 104.55*0.5 =
62.88%
Thats. BIG IMPROVEMENT!!!
Logged
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #127 on:
February 08, 2011, 05:51:30 am »
Percantages don't give the full picture, sure, they're considerably worse against BAR riflemen when compared with their old state, but they're only as 'bad' versus BAR riflemen as your average WM grenadier squad. Which I don't think anyone here will argue die like flies versus BAR riflemen...
They were ridiculously resistant to BAR riflemen in their old state, some would even argue they were too resistant. So considering their old state, that 63% makes things look a lot worse than in reality it turns out to be. The old PE armour is really a vCOH mechanic that was carried over, even though there was no justification to. They don't need to be considerably more resistant versus BARs in EIR, like they need to be in VCOH.
The only big problem possibly is that their damage output does not allow them to compete with BAR riflemen like grenadiers can, and that may be the core issue here. (And yes, you could definitely also argue that the terrible DPS is a vCOH mechanic we don't need to keep intact)
«
Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 05:56:39 am by Unkn0wn
»
Logged
BigDick
Guest
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #128 on:
February 08, 2011, 05:54:47 am »
but the difference is that grens can get medkits that make them able to take more damage and most important they can shoot back what pgrens not really can with their crap rifles
the idea to change it to infantry armor wasn't a bad one but only for tankbusters because to spend 120mun for an at unit that gets 1-2 shotted by most tanks is just bullshit
Logged
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #129 on:
February 08, 2011, 05:57:22 am »
Grenadiers without medkits do fine just as well, but like you pointed out, it's the DPS difference that really makes the PZgrens look pale in comparison. (About 40% worse than WM grenadiers)
Logged
brn4meplz
Misinformation Officer
Posts: 6952
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #130 on:
February 08, 2011, 06:48:45 am »
G43's can help close the gap, but at 2 G43's per upgrade it's not quite the same.
Logged
He thinks Tactics is a breath mint
Quote from: Unkn0wn on July 31, 2012, 03:50:15 am
Wow I think that was the nicest thing brn ever posted!
Quote from: Bear on June 19, 2013, 01:24:59 pm
the pussy of a prostitute is not tight enough for destroy a condom
NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #131 on:
February 08, 2011, 08:55:04 am »
Quote from: brn4meplz on February 08, 2011, 06:48:45 am
G43's can help close the gap, but at 2 G43's per upgrade it's not quite the same.
So...when buying G43s only 2 guys get them?
Logged
cloud234
EIR Veteran
Posts: 363
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #132 on:
February 08, 2011, 08:59:27 am »
Quote from: NightRain on February 08, 2011, 08:55:04 am
So...when buying G43s only 2 guys get them?
Yes. It would be awesome if all 4 guys got it. Zoom in and view it.
Logged
NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #133 on:
February 08, 2011, 09:00:14 am »
Quote from: cloud234 on February 08, 2011, 08:59:27 am
Yes. It would be awesome if all 4 guys got it. Zoom in and view it.
teh fu. No wonder they seem crappy. Ontop of it 60 mun! \o/
Logged
nugnugx
Donator
Posts: 4051
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #134 on:
February 08, 2011, 09:01:53 am »
meh i told ages ago that g43 needs a buff
Logged
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #135 on:
February 08, 2011, 11:01:40 am »
omg...all guns get 2 per upgrade except the lmg.
bars = 2
lmg = 1
bren = 2
g43 = 2
only diff are the smgs which equip the whole squad, why would the g43 be any different?
Logged
LeoPhone
Honoured Member
Posts: 0
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #136 on:
February 08, 2011, 11:06:26 am »
coz g43 is weaker than bars and brens?
but price change should be enough if its weak. no 4 g43 pgren blobs plz.
Logged
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #137 on:
February 08, 2011, 11:22:55 am »
Ya Tym, because 2 G43's make the squad about 80% as shooty as a Gren squad. Whereas 2 BAR's nearly DOUBLES the Rifle squads firepower.
Logged
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
cloud234
EIR Veteran
Posts: 363
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #138 on:
February 09, 2011, 11:33:43 am »
Quote from: Unkn0wn on February 08, 2011, 05:51:30 am
Percantages don't give the full picture, sure, they're considerably worse against BAR riflemen when compared with their old state, but they're only as 'bad' versus BAR riflemen as your average WM grenadier squad. Which I don't think anyone here will argue die like flies versus BAR riflemen...
They were ridiculously resistant to BAR riflemen in their old state, some would even argue they were too resistant. So considering their old state, that 63% makes things look a lot worse than in reality it turns out to be. The old PE armour is really a vCOH mechanic that was carried over, even though there was no justification to. They don't need to be considerably more resistant versus BARs in EIR, like they need to be in VCOH.
The only big problem possibly is that their damage output does not allow them to compete with BAR riflemen like grenadiers can, and that may be the core issue here. (And yes, you could definitely also argue that the terrible DPS is a vCOH mechanic we don't need to keep intact)
I think you do not appreciate the significance of percentages.
Essentially in a hypothetical scenario...
Lets assume it takes 60 seconds to kill PzGrens. The math is HP / DPS = Time.
A 60% improvement would mean it will be PreviousTime / Improvement = New Time... 60 / 1.6 = 37.5.
Are you saying it doesn't show the "whole picture"?
Logged
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: [PE] PzGren Changes
«
Reply #139 on:
February 09, 2011, 11:59:00 am »
No, I'm saying some people here have the perception that they're now absolutely terrible, when my point is that they're only as 'terrible' as your average WM grenadier... Yes, they were significantly stronger in certain departments before this change, but their high pre-nerf resistance versus BARs for example is a vCOH mechanic that is irrelevant in EIR gameplay.
Logged
Pages:
1
...
5
6
[
7
]
8
9
...
12
Go Up
Print
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
News & Introductions
-----------------------------
=> Updates & Announcements
=> EIR Boot Camp
===> In Other Languages
=====> In Chinese
=====> In German
=====> In Spanish
=====> In Polish
=====> In French
=====> In Norwegian
=> New Players
-----------------------------
EIR Main Forums
-----------------------------
=> General Discussion
=> Tactics & Strategy
=> Balance & Design
=> Broadcasts & Replays
=> Projects & Mapping
=> Technical Support
===> Bug Reporting
-----------------------------
General Forums
-----------------------------
=> General Discussion
=> Other Games
TinyPortal v1.0 beta 4 ©
Bloc
Loading...