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[Uglysori]

I do dislike the sprint now costing MU on assault a tank grens lol, especialy that much MU

I also have to question the 30 muni cost.  Before, it took longer but reaching vet 2 on your PE infantry finally opened up sprint and gave your foot army some nice options in terms of flanking, running for cover, or chasing.  Now its nice, granted, that your entire PE troop at vet 0 can now have access to sprint but cost changes make assault grens and TBs with vet sergeants a tad bit expensive especially since they can no longer earn sprint through veterancy also.  I heard the changes were to bring them inline to be poor man's rangers.  Well indeed they are indeed exactly that except cost nearly as much.  Currently rangers are 310 manpower, 180 muni for thompson package which can be 4x-5x thompsons depending on spec.  The squad is a 6 man squad with superior ranger armor though 15 less hp per man than an assault gren squad.  Assault Grens are now 290 manpower and 150 muni with vet sarge upgrade.  Thompsons are weaker than Mp44s at all ranges according to the old Zaxis spreadsheet but Rangers maintain their firepower better in prolonged firefights were attrition is taken into acct because of superior armor and numbers.  Rangers are higher pop of course but Assault grens are penalized at 1.25 pop per man.  Manpower efficiency per assault gren is 72.5 vs 51.6 for rangers. Mp44 vs Thompsons come out to 37.5 to 45 or 36 muni per gun depending on spec.
Something to think about?

TBs cost less in manpower compared to rangers and assault grens but now that single shrek is a whopping 150 muni.  2-3 zooks come in at around 80 muni depending on spec.  Granted I play PE so the zooks have plenty of soft targets to hunt and that is where fire up is most useful, chasing those halftracks that can do nothing to stop you as they struggle with pathfinding.  Sprint on TBs is probably not as useful given that most of the light vehicles field by the allies are going to wreck the TB squad as they chase ie Quads and given the the strong AI abilities of most Allied tanks w/ the high amount of HE round players or the inherent abilities of allied tanks. Stuarts with cannister, cromwell/sherman/Jumbo splash.  In turn, clown cars b/c of the muni cost increase makes getting the vet sarge an increasingly poor option.  
  

On a side note assault flammens are not charged munitions for their vet sarge upgrade btw.    

[lionel23]

Okay, I was going to say this was probably one of the best patches I've seen released.  Though I see a big problem now with the vet sarges.

The Patch note clearly states what the Vet Sarge upgrade does, which is nice.  What I dislike about it is the unmentioned cost increase in vet sarge, especially when it is NOT universally the same.

Pgrens and Assault Flame Grens = 50MP
Assault Grens and Tankbusters = 60MP, 30MU

Jesus 30 MU, seriously?  The manpower I could deal with, but 30 MU on top of that?

That makes a sprint - NOT FIREUP - squad cost be insanely ridiculous.

Tankbusters w/ Sarge = 310MP (up from 230MP), 160MU (up from 130MU)
Assault Grens w/ Sarge = 300MP (up from 240MP), 150MU (up from 120MU)

Now compare this to my Wehr company... which already has 'more variety' in terms of vehicles to not rely so heavily on infantry.

Elite Armor Grenadier (AI) - 240MP (70MU w/ LMG)
Elite Armor Grenadier (AT) - 240MP (120MU w/ Shrek)
Knights Cross Holders - 310MP, 110MU

So looking at this, the vet sarge makes the PE Assault infantry more expensive than KCH without good armor.  Comparing the Shrek squad (PE) to allies, you're getting close to the price of an airborne squad w/ RRs without it being nearly as good (2 fewer guys), no fireup and a single weapon... along with terrible rifles compared to grens.  Yet Assault Flamen Grens (who are MUCH better at assaulting) get the vet sarge just for a MP increase... so is this change designed to nerf vanilla infantry and leave doctrine infantry unaffected?

[PonySlaystation]

There is a topic about this already. It's probably better if you post balance issues there and keep this topic on general patch criticism.

[lionel23]

Saw it just now, it isn't correctly labeled or in the correct forum, so hence why no one noticed.

[BigDick]

Tankbusters w/ Sarge = 310MP (up from 230MP), 160MU (up from 130MU)
Assault Grens w/ Sarge = 300MP (up from 240MP), 150MU (up from 120MU)

Now compare this to my Wehr company... which already has 'more variety' in terms of vehicles to not rely so heavily on infantry.

Elite Armor Grenadier (AI) - 240MP (70MU w/ LMG)
Elite Armor Grenadier (AT) - 240MP (120MU w/ Shrek)
Knights Cross Holders - 310MP, 110MU

what your comparing is a T0 company with a T4 company sounds a bit ridicules imho

(i'm not saying that the pricing of sgt upgrade is overpriced or underpriced)

[lionel23]

I'm illustrating how a FREE Doctrine ability lets grens perform way above their cost, as well as the 'elite' axis infantry being the KCH in pricing.

Then you compare an ability you pay for that not only increases their cost above the better 'vanilla' unit, and it becomes untenable.  It's like saying buying a repair kit for a Inf HT makes it cost as much as a King Tiger.  Obviously looking at those two, price wise, you can tell that a repair kit wouldn't be justifiable.  What I'm illustrating is the same.  You've just increased the cost of a unit exponentially and yet the advantages of it are no where near as good compared to vanilla counterparts (ie compare KCH against Assault Grens).

[Hydro]

Pak 40 with omniscience still has 100% chance hit for at guns. You forgot about changing values at changed weapon after upgrade

[TheIcelandicManiac]

this patch is great exept the faqt flamers can get into Bren carriers and they are impenitrable for small arms fire.

[Hicks58]

I'm pretty sure assault grens can do exactly the same thing Icelandic, except with IHT's.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Yea but not everyone uses them  and they are more expecive.

[Tymathee]

this patch is great exept the faqt flamers can get into Bren carriers and they are impenitrable for small arms fire.

lol so are IHT's, and flammens are much better in ihts than flame sappers would be in uc's because they have mp44's rather than enfields. Plus, because axis AT, other than the pak, generally does more damage, the UC will go down quicker than an IHT, which also has an hmg, which can suppress pretty fast, and then u move in with the flammen.

oh and uc an put more than one in it, but the uc only 1 squad

[AmPM]

On the other side of the coin Tym, Axis has much lower access to vehicle disablers, such as Stickies and Brens that keep light armor away from your main AT.

[puddin]

Faust, Tread breaker Much similar to  Sticky, Bren  Sooo your point is Oh thats Right, Its moot.

[brn4meplz]

Fausts are just damage, and if memory serves it takes 3 to kill a Universal Carrier

[pqumsieh]

fausts have a chance to cause engine damage w/ rear hits brn.

[DarkSoldierX]

fausts have a chance to cause engine damage w/ rear hits brn.

So do any normal AT weapon shot....

[Mysthalin]

So do any normal AT weapon shot....

Only at yellow HP and the chance is 5 percent.
Fausts have much better chances.

[AmPM]

Only at yellow HP and the chance is 5 percent.
Fausts have much better chances.

AFAIK Fausts only get in in yellow or lower as well.

Either way, it is not a vehicle disabler.

I would kill for fausts to stuf for 3-5 seconds.

[pandaExpress]

"GMC 75mm population cost lowered to 5"

pop still at 6

[EIRRMod]

"GMC 75mm population cost lowered to 5"

pop still at 6

Launcher or in game?