[US] M18 Hellcat

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[BigDick]

I've not used Hetzers myself. However, I've used Stugs and I've used them quite a bit.

I find Stugs to be fine, and against armour, they roll out more or less the same in combat performance.

No they don't. Stugs got damage modifiers against many vehicles and tanks so they do most times 25-50% more damage than hetzers.

The Hellcat and M10 does not get these wierd penetration vs. Stugs but vs. Hetzers.
And stugs are not part of the already struggling faction against all kind of cheap AT

[Tymathee]

hetzers are a pain in the ***. The thing that makes them so useful is their long range sniping ability, other wise theres no point in using them.

and while m-10s and m-18s are great vs them, they need to flank it to be more useful, otherwise the hetzer can get off a shot or 2 before they get close and something near it will finishi it off nearly every time

[DarkSoldierX]

M10 actualy has higher long range acc and just 5 less range than a scoped hetzer(without your 5 less range than a m10)

The m10/m18 shoots faster and does more dmg per shot than a hetzer, but cannot engage inf with gun unless the m18 has a .50.

The M10 and m18 have higher mov acc too.

[puddin]

The simple fact is, you never see them anymore. 

The pathing is terrible, THe ability to control them is shit, and the frontal penn is lack luster and flankign with them is a pain since the above pathing issues. 

Either the pathing needs fixing whioch i would lvoe... The pop is still ok, since the FU price is still 25 less then the M-10 makes a huge difference.

[Tymathee]

maybe just get rid of them all together just like the omni bus

[LeoPhone]

why is pathing terrible?

coz they have bad acc/dec or coz theyre so big?

[Tymathee]

size + slower acceleration + slower turn than m-10

[AmPM]

It's slower, basically thats about it.

It's not bad when you get used to it, if it's main gun was 50% better at penetrating (75% of an M10's) I would use it all the time at 10 pop.

If the gun isn't altered it basically needs to be 8 pop so you can afford secondary AT for it.

[8thRifleRegiment]

if it already whips the shit out of an enitre faction... is that not enough anyways? if yer facing PE you put some in, if not, Dont, its like flamer sqauds, if your facing a wehr blitz, you but alot more to counter the elite armor, or you replace pershings with caliopes to counter a defensive player. We dont need super multipurpose units.

[Demon767]

I think 8th actually has a point.

[Hicks58]

Yes, because dropping the pop by 2 down to 8 will miraculously make it a super multi-purpose unit.

[Malgoroth]

8 pop is reasonable, but the thing sure as shit doesn't need any price reductions or damage/penetration buffs.

[BigDick]

how about making the M10 12 pop? would give some more appeal to use the hellcat

[Hicks58]

You cant solve a problem with one unit by kicking another in the nuts. If anything that shows that the original unit is even more screwed than your giving it credit for if your essentially forcing people to use it.

[pqumsieh]

How about we just improve its mobility and call it a day!

[BigDick]

You cant solve a problem with one unit by kicking another in the nuts. If anything that shows that the original unit is even more screwed than your giving it credit for if your essentially forcing people to use it.

currently the m10 is a bargain to raise its pop slightly would not kick it into the nuts
but it would balance its effectiveness a bit and people would use the m18 more often

to put it in a nutshell:

m18 is not under-performing but the m10 is probably to good

[RikiRude]

The m10 is awesome, but I'm not sure if it's 12 pop awesome. Yes it's good at running units over, but only if you know how to do it properly. What if you made the hellcat 8 pop and reduced its super effectiveness against PE by 25%? Or what if you buffed it's decloaking shot and made the ambush cost MU? Or made it able to move really slow while cloaked (actually that would be a cool doctrine buff!) the hellcat has potential to be a pretty cool unit, but I dont think reducing its cost (although maybe reducing its pool cost would help?) would make a big difference. I feel like anytime one is brought out you cant help by think, should of brought an m10 instead.

The only benefit the hellcat has over the m10 it seems are mines and a .50 which cost mu and aren't too entirely impressive. Other than that it's slower, and has a worse gun. And the ambush shot doesn't make up for it (since it misses or bounces most of the time!)

[LeoPhone]

suuure.. moving cloaked m18... the fact that the biggest tank in the game cloaks isn't ridiculous enough for you yet?

m18 has a huge advantage above the m10: it has 46 sight. this allows it to perfectly kite on its own, while the m10 needs another unit to scout (more popcost)

[AmPM]

if it already whips the shit out of an enitre faction... is that not enough anyways? if yer facing PE you put some in, if not, Dont, its like flamer sqauds, if your facing a wehr blitz, you but alot more to counter the elite armor, or you replace pershings with caliopes to counter a defensive player. We dont need super multipurpose units.

Except the M10 does the same thing, has better anti infantry ability, and can tackle your Panther/Jadg/Wehr teammates tanks.

[ErwinNH]

Oh the irony.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=18214.msg317198#msg317198


(edited in the "and either")