Pe Panther 3 as medium AT tank

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[AmPM]

and? whats the difference than what he's proposing? it's a freakin tank destroyer, not a tank. :| it has the same freakin aoe as an m-10, matter of fact, if you really look at it, it's an almost exact copy of the m-10 gun with a few changes in damage and range. He wants an axis version of an m-10, even the speed, accel and decel are the same

It is a tank though, the thing is, PE want another tank.

Though if you want we could make the M10 closer to what it was in reality and remove its turret rotation =)

[Tymathee]

His suggesting a panther that has 27.5 less damage. 342 less health. No -10% less recieved damage, penetration -25% less handheld at dmg/pen. No munition cost other than Repair kit and no ability to use for long range sniping.

And that costs 350 manpower 210 fuel and is 10 pop.

how is it -25% less handlheld? you just count in the skirts as something always bought?

this is also a unit thats .8 faster than a panther with a 3 second faster reload, larger aoe, 0.05 long range accuracy, .10 higher moving accuracy, .05 higher long range pen, and 0.013 medium range pen.

I'm telling you, if this is part of PE, ther's no need to buy marders and 50mm, you'd see a ton of these and all the munitions that would've gone into 50mm LAT's would go into other upgrades. I know I would.

[nugnugx]

how is it -25% less handlheld? you just count in the skirts as something always bought?

Actualy you don't see tanks without skirts , so 99% of people buy them.

this is also a unit thats .8 faster than a panther with a 3 second faster reload, larger aoe, 0.05 long range accuracy, .10 higher moving accuracy, .05 higher long range pen, and 0.013 medium range pen.

I'm telling you, if this is part of PE, ther's no need to buy marders and 50mm, you'd see a ton of these and all the munitions that would've gone into 50mm LAT's would go into other upgrades. I know I would.

And m10 is faster , with better accuracy than pershing and longer range.

I'm telling you if this is the part of US , there is no need to buy atgs , shermans pershings because you will see tons of those and all the munitions that would go into atgs will go into other upgrade


your point is ?

[Demon767]

Pe dont need a medium AT tank

[spinn72]

Why on earth do PE need more units? Ffs, they're powerful enough in their current incarnation with enough AT options and a million different ways to support these units (that people often don't utilise). Instead of pushing for new units and wasting everyone's time, why don't you just try to use the units already available?

If you're going to give PE a medium tank, give americans a mortar halftrack, might as well make all factions identical.

[nugnugx]

might as well make all factions identical.

that was done 2 years ago

[nugnugx]

bumped 2 old threads , to show that  PE AT issue is an old one

[Mysthalin]

Nug. If you make a unit that you immediately need to put a hardcap on it means you have created a hillariously OP unit and should go stand in the corner for daring waste my braincells with stupidity.

Shoo now.

[nugnugx]

Nug. If you make a unit that you immediately need to put a hardcap on it means you have created a hillariously OP unit and should go stand in the corner for daring waste my braincells with stupidity.

Shoo now.

and who said you need ?   You know how Tym is.

Does it mean m10 is op ?

[Nijo]

I don't get the point...
Why do you Need that Tank? PE has fast moving and a bit fragile atgs named 50mm and marders. They have the schrecks for Close at support. The play style of PE is that they have deadly fast units to go in and get the kill.
The Medium Tank destroyer you are talking about just doesnt fit.

Just you are wanting something doesnt mean you need it.


As armor i would like to have a panther like tank but there is no "balance need"

~nijo~

[Mysthalin]

Except the M10 doesn't have 4 seconds reload and panther armour, you know?

Oh, and you do realise that your tank is extremely min-maxed in the sense it will generally rape Shermans, Churchills and Cromwells but be utter fail versus M10s and god forbid seeing a Pershing or Firefly.

[Heartmann]

I would rather agree on remodeling the PnZ IV IS, to be able to ward off Medium tanks tanks etc, something similar to org. PnZ V that the Wher has, but make it PE, another Panther armored unit just will be horribly man hand held in the right PE player arms, since there is so much good support vs basically everything in PE faction atm. But i do miss a tank that can attack with the inf, and not far in the back as u have to use the marders etc.

[nugnugx]

Except the M10 doesn't have 4 seconds reload and panther armour, you know?

yes it has reload of 4.2, it just doesn't have armor which is needed for axis tanks as allies got ap rounds and plenty of disables+ handheld

Oh, and you do realise that your tank is extremely min-maxed in the sense it will generally rape Shermans, Churchills and Cromwells but be utter fail versus M10s and god forbid seeing a Pershing or Firefly.

m10 is also generaly fail vs a panther or tiger alone.   It's not to go 1v1 vs pershing.  Use a support, make a finishing shot , take on a sherman 1v1 like you do with m10 vs pz4. Combined arms , like you can use atg + m10 for effect. Pe does not have such an option. 

 Chase with 50mm or marder? lol

I just posted a general idea of what a pe at tank would work good.

[Mysthalin]

yes it has reload of 4.2

Nope. Total reload time for the M10 is 6 seconds. Precisely 6 seconds.

m10 is also generaly fail vs a panther or tiger alone.

I've killed Tigers with M10s and a jeep scouting without even being shot back at once. Ask speedy if you don't believe me.
The panther's range disallows that to happen - but hey. Double M10 rush and pwn the shit out of it with pure DPS.

PE already has perfect counters to Shermans and M10s - so adding another just seems like a pointless waste of time.

[nugnugx]

Nope. Total reload time for the M10 is 6 seconds. Precisely 6 seconds.

Reload    4.2—4.2

Cooldown    0—0

Reload Frequency    1—1

Fire Aim Time    0—0

Proposed tank has same stats , so both fire at same speed.

PE already has perfect counters to Shermans and M10s - so adding another just seems like a pointless waste of time.

Which are marders and 50mm that are mobile atgs and can be circled without a problem and die to 3 shots ?


Thats like saying wehr has perfect counter to tanks because they have paks ,  allies have perfect counter because they have atgs.

But both of them has also tanks ,  p4 and  sherm m10, PE has none.

[Mysthalin]

How about you go check the RGDs?
You'll find a reload time of 5, and a wind-down time of 1.
Total time between shots : 6.

Which are marders and 50mm that are mobile atgs and can be circled without a problem and die to 3 shots ?

Except you can reverse with 50mms and Marders to quite large effect - and why the hell is your 5/6 popcap AT piece unsupported when engaged by a 12 popcap tank is beyond me.

[nugnugx]

How about you go check the RGDs?
You'll find a reload time of 5, and a wind-down time of 1.

ok checked guess it was changed.This tank can have the same, not saying it needs less.

and why the hell is your 5/6 popcap AT piece unsupported when engaged by a 12 popcap tank is beyond me.

because there is nothing to support with in PE, other than other 50mm or marder. This tank would help in situations like this.

[Mysthalin]

Except the fact that the US and WM ATGs are not highly mobile and thus self-sufficient to a fairly large extent in warding off enemy tanks. Not to mention they do not have the fast-attack capabilities that PE do.

Maybe it's time for you to accept the simple fact that PE is not MEANT to be another US or WM? It has it's own strengths and weaknesses - just like any other faction, and it's INTENDED this way. Dishing out units to factions just because it "would be cool" is not how balance should be done. Give out equal opportunity to win, not equal means.

[nugnugx]

Dishing out units to factions just because it "would be cool" is not how balance should be done. Give out equal opportunity to win, not equal means.

Not for 'cool', but for what you've written, giving out equal opportunity to win.

Brits also can dish out 'fast attack's with their brens and troops, but they have a cromwell.

PE is the only faction out of all 3 that is lacking in this aspect - i would say that it is top priority for 'equal opportunity'.

And if you are starting to talk about 'equal means' -  there are plenty of units already which were mirrored from other factions which are not needed, and when an actual unit is needed, the idea gets shot down.

[Mister Schmidt]

I don't get the point...
Why do you Need that Tank? PE has fast moving and a bit fragile atgs named 50mm and marders. They have the schrecks for Close at support. The play style of PE is that they have deadly fast units to go in and get the kill.
The Medium Tank destroyer you are talking about just doesnt fit.

I'm not arguing either way, but actually nijo from the point you just made about PE, it fits perfectly.