HVAP with Sherman Spam?

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[Kruno]

Technically panthers have a range and speed advantage over Pershings and Shermans so you shouldn't lose to either in a 1v1 situation.

It's rly a shame, that i dont have replay.. but in one game pershing was fighting king tiger, and got engine dmg.
From not so far behind, panther was comming to end him, yet pershing made pretty fast escape...

I'd say, pershing is not all that slow while comparing to panther. But with engine dmg, it looks like he is way faster, than panther with engine dmg.

And now lets point some things.
Sherman's are by far OP. Com' on! Sherman is fighting panther? Alone? 1v1? What the hell?
You made your allies so OP that now, it is just a joke watching them fight.

Why not skip all that crap, and give allies some M1A2 Abrams...

[spinn72]

I find if you get Blitzkrieg, Ostwinds benefit most from it. The speed allows them to be able to flank and survive from almost anything, and on maps with large hedges, you can crush them and get right behind enemy lines. Panthers with LW are just nasty provided you can micro a bike in front of it, they're fast enough to chase any allied tank and to be able to get away from anything chasing it. It basically turns into a Firefly with a shit ton of HP.

[smurfORnot]

doesnt panther have just a tad bit more HP than sherman? So that means that fly has rly low hp?

[sgMisten]

Panther 760 hp or something
Sherman 636
Firefly 550

[NightRain]

Sherman would require around 8 penetrating shots to kill a Panther as it would deal with HVAP 96.25 damage per shot- I'm assuming every shot penetrates.

Panther normally deals 137.5 damage per shot and would only require only up to 5 shots to kill a Sherman- Panther penetrates Sherman all the time. I'd say that 2 Shermans would automatically win a panther if they had HVAPs and upguns but that'd be 480 fuel vs 450 fuel and 24 pop vs 15 pop.

To put it pluntly. 6 Shermans can and will easily outmanouver 3 Panther companies because Sherman can fight vs tanks and infantry quite well too.

[Hicks58]

Dont forget the range advantage NightRain. A single Panther can drop multiple Shermans if you can manipulate your range and the environment correctly.

Oh, and the only way a single Sherman will drop a Panther is if the Panther user is a complete and total idiot that sits his Panther in one direction and lets the Sherman use some serious terrain advantages, such as bobbing in and out of a shot blocker from the opposite side that the turret is currently facing.

Or, the Panther is at a third of it's health already, and you stay in the Sherman's range.

[NightRain]

That would require a extra spotter for the Panther as it has only 35 Line of Sight, same as the Sherman- that is unless Sherman gets more LoS within the T3 or T2s or even T1s when going for HVAPs.

When it comes to 1 vehicle vs 1 vehicle the LoS means both vehicles are in range to hammer one another due to lack of LoS. Unless Panzer Aces is involved, which means Panther's now have 45 LoS and therefore can use their extra range to their advantage. However I'd still conclude that 2x HVAP Shermans > 1 Panther.

[Hicks58]

2 HVAP Shermans would > 1 Panther.

However, for still a cheaper cost than 2 HVAP Shermans would fail against 1 Bike and 1 Panther. Strong micro would reward you with a pair of dead Shermans.

Bike - 90 mp 10 fu 3 pop
Panther - 600 mp 450 fu 14 pop

Total - 690 mp 460 fu 17 pop

2 Shermans - 790 mp 480 fu 24 pop

Shit, you could get a second bike and still be cost effective in all three areas incase your micro happens to fail with your single bike.

[Kruno]

Oh, and the only way a single Sherman will drop a Panther is if the Panther user is a complete and total idiot that sits his Panther in one direction and lets the Sherman use some serious terrain advantages, such as bobbing in and out of a shot blocker from the opposite side that the turret is currently facing.

...khm *
You just called JustinBieber total idiot... haha

[Kruno]

2 HVAP Shermans would > 1 Panther.

However, for still a cheaper cost than 2 HVAP Shermans would fail against 1 Bike and 1 Panther. Strong micro would reward you with a pair of dead Shermans.

Bike - 90 mp 10 fu 3 pop
Panther - 600 mp 450 fu 14 pop

Total - 690 mp 460 fu 17 pop

2 Shermans - 790 mp 480 fu 24 pop

Shit, you could get a second bike and still be cost effective in all three areas incase your micro happens to fail with your single bike.

You wonna test that? I'll do it. Ill take shermans, you take as much bikes as you wonna

[TheIcelandicManiac]

...khm *
You just called JustinBieber total idiot... haha

isint he?

[Kruno]

isint he?

..yeah, he is... but the player i meant that managed to almost die with panther to sherman

[Tymathee]

96.25 dmg 6 second reload
vs
137.5 dmg 7 second reload

tbh, the panther user probably screwed up somehow if he only had 10% health left or he's exaggerating, replay or it didn't happen. He could just be trolling to try and get hvap nerfed because he doesn't like his axis tanks not owning allied tanks completely.

[smurfORnot]

ask Leo,Nug and dunno who was 3rd allie...it happened! and sherman wasnt taking rear shots etc. it was head to head fight...

[Hicks58]

For that to happen, the Panther would have to had bounced at least half of it's shots, and the Sherman penetrated every time.

Considering the Panther has a 94.27% chance to penetrate a Sherman at max range... The chance of getting any more than a single bounce in a single engagement is right up there with shagging the pope.

As well as that, the 40%-48% frontal penetration of the Sherman doesn't make every shot penetration very probable.

Oh, and because you were more than likely in medium range due to the Sherman being able to fire back, the penetration chance goes up to 100.02% meaning you physically cant bounce a shot. The Sherman gets no incoming penetration modifiers with vet, so vet would make no difference to how many rounds penetrate.

Hell, the only thing that could have truly influenced it, is not rolling a kill crit when you get to 5% health.

[RikiRude]

i dont think it would make too much of a difference, but im just curious who was using the panther, was it a WM or PE panther, and did it have any doctrinal buffs/skirts?? because that has got to just be terrible luck, I bet it would be hard to recreate.

And the problem with panther is it seems somewhat difficult to balance, they are always OP or UP (seems to be UP as of late) then we give them a price decrease and then everyone is using them. There needs to be some doctrine buffs that affect the panther a little bit extra to make them more enticing maybe?

[Hicks58]

APCR for PE turns the Panther into a nasty piece of work.

Panzer Aces allow you to keep your range while you engage on Blitz.

There's a couple more floating around...

[TheIcelandicManiac]

APCR dose give it  an Great  ability to Counter an unupgraded Pershing but when it gets hvap it is just as Pointless as a pershing counter  as before

[Hicks58]

With a 67.63% chance to penetrate from max range using APCR... Just stay out of his 40 range while you sit at your 47.5 and laugh. Use a ketten to spot.

Panthers are a much faster and heavily armoured equivalent of a Firefly that can actually hit infantry every now and again, especially officers for some odd reason...

Try using it as a Sniper rather than a main battle tank.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Panthers are a much faster and heavily armoured equivalent of a Firefly that can actually hit infantry every now and again, especially officers for some odd reason...

Yea i have noticed and it allways makes me laugh a little that but the firefly dose have its own ability to snipe infantry out of garrison better tough,