Only nubs use Heavy & Super Heavy Tanks!

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[Unkn0wn]

Keep it civil guys.

[smurfORnot]

The reality is (from my perspective), give anyone who is not an utter noob a super heavy/heavy tank and chances are, they'll suddenly do very well.

well,thats only your reality,as Tym also has his own view of reality 

give noob Tiger/KT and it will fail and do nothing...and no,they suddenly wont do very well. Heavies are not  'I winn' button ,they are more hit or miss.

[Mister Schmidt]

LOL. Well, so its wrong to think you're better than them?

No, I just don't think it's necessary to class them as being "below" you, in terms of a player. If you're better, by all means, fine, you most likely are, just, I dunno, don't be so mean?

[Vermillion_Hawk]

So let me get this straight cloud, your screwed-up sense of honor or something tells you that heavy/superheavy tanks are "too easy" to use, and so you refuse to use them, and then try to inflict this on everyone else by nerfing them? It's like saying, "I'm going to bring a knife to a gunfight because I feel that guns are overpowered!" The fact that you believe they are dishonorable or whatever dos not in any way make them a less-viable tactic.

[Mysthalin]

You don't have to accept his point of view, Vermilion, but it is not hard to understand the logic behind it.

Games are fun. Games are fun because they are challenging. Challenge comes from having to overcome obstacles that require skill. The battlefield utility you gain from using this kind of unit in attempts to win is less dependent on skill than other units similar in nature (I.E. Medium tanks). Hence less skill is involved. Hence the challenge part of overcoming the obstacles via skill is diluted. Hence less fun is derived from the challenge. Hence less fun is created overall.

This entire logical flowchart does make one particular assumption : in that it requires less skill to use heavy tanks than it does to require medium tanks - and as such, since there hasn't been any statistically or mathematically-based analysis of heavy and medium tanks, this viewpoint is entirely subjective. His point of view on the subject is just as valid as yours is - and it may well be so that both of you are wrong.

So, either use the maths (or other objective proof) to back up your own ideas to prove them, or do not claim that your ideas are in any way superior to that of another person just because you feel that way.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

You don't have to accept his point of view, Vermilion, but it is not hard to understand the logic behind it.

Games are fun. Games are fun because they are challenging. Challenge comes from having to overcome obstacles that require skill. The battlefield utility you gain from using this kind of unit in attempts to win is less dependent on skill than other units similar in nature (I.E. Medium tanks). Hence less skill is involved. Hence the challenge part of overcoming the obstacles via skill is diluted. Hence less fun is derived from the challenge. Hence less fun is created overall.

Despite your admirable attempt to machinize everything, I highly doubt there is no subjective, constant way to mathematically calculate fun based on the usage of units. I personally find it fun to use superheavy tanks, and in no way do I believe it allows me to win easier than using regular medium tanks, quite the opposite in fact, I win more often on my companies that don't use superheavies. I only use superheavies because they are FUN in my opinion.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Fuck you too cloud.

Srsly after 2 days of playing blitz and finnaly getting a hold of an heavytank that aint an jagd i find a thread like this that is about how nooby i am becouse i enjoy using a tank.

[brn4meplz]

Don't worry. Back when Heavy tanks were a liability people still made the same claim.

[shockcoil]

Despite your admirable attempt to machinize everything, I highly doubt there is no subjective, constant way to mathematically calculate fun based on the usage of units. I personally find it fun to use superheavy tanks, and in no way do I believe it allows me to win easier than using regular medium tanks, quite the opposite in fact, I win more often on my companies that don't use superheavies. I only use superheavies because they are FUN in my opinion.

You must have missed the part where he said that the assumption that Heavy Tanks require less skill to use is a subjective viewpoint.

[Mysthalin]

Everything can be machinised. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[RikiRude]

While I agree running double pershings is easier, running sherman spam with OBM and Crew efficiency (or just T4 mobile warfare) is amazing. Just takes more skill to pull off, but damn it's probably one of the most fun armour builds I've ever played.

i did see someone play with this, moving shermans that can shoot and repair, they were pretty successful, plus they always seemed to have a upguned sherman or two on that was supported well.

[cloud234]

So let me get this straight cloud, your screwed-up sense of honor or something tells you that heavy/superheavy tanks are "too easy" to use, and so you refuse to use them, and then try to inflict this on everyone else by nerfing them? It's like saying, "I'm going to bring a knife to a gunfight because I feel that guns are overpowered!" The fact that you believe they are dishonorable or whatever dos not in any way make them a less-viable tactic.

If I do indeed perceive them to be imbalance, I gather thats the tone you're going by... whats wrong with being a fair player and stating something is OP? By that logic, you're saying that no one should ever state anything is OP.

I never said its less-viable. Funny how you can't seem to read or understand what the post is about. Here's a clue:

Its an observation

... I win more often on my companies that don't use superheavies. I only use superheavies because they are FUN in my opinion.

Fuck you too cloud.

Srsly after 2 days of playing blitz and finnaly getting a hold of an heavytank that aint an jagd i find a thread like this that is about how nooby i am becouse i enjoy using a tank.

Sorry, but you're really begging for a "L2P" comment weren't you? 

Don't worry. Back when Heavy tanks were a liability people still made the same claim.

There's a huge difference between back then and now. That is the most horrible claim ever.

1. Muntions were scarce and upgrades were expensive in vEiR.
2. EiR:R came about, munitions became abundant, yada yada, doctrines were different and KCH w/ Oakleafs was not present.
3. EiR:R repair system were in various implementations
4. ATG did not cost 5 popcap

[Sachaztan]

Just like Glenn Beck only "asks questions"

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Well, Cloud, making a thread about how only noobs use heavy/superheavy tanks then deploying two Pershings is kind of counter-productive to your main thesis. I'll even post the replay once I get it figured out.

[cloud234]

I've posted it for you already 

You can look it up in the Replay Section.

[Poppi]

I hardly count 2 pershings as depending on super heavy tanks.

[NightRain]

Shh. Having a Pershing is entirely different than having any other heavy tank. First of all Pershing is fast, has good accuracy and good splash and has good armor. Compared to any other heavy tank known to man

- Tiger is le shit
- Panther loses to Pershing more or less
- KT/Jagd etc are Super Heavies.

If anything Pershing is the best Heavy tank there is due to its speed. Saying that running a pershing company is easy mode is honestly the truth.

All the other heavy armor classes are medicore compared to this one.

KT and Jagd as they are Super heavies they can't be considered as heavies due to them being well- super. Where Jagdpanther is only Anti tank, KT excells at both in its medicore way.

[panzerman]

KT is le shit at AI. more a AT tank.

[smurfORnot]

KT 'excels' at taking hits,not so much at inflicting them.

[Malgoroth]

I agree that the Pershing is by far the best of the heavies/super heavies. In this game environment, speed is everything.