Engineers Draft

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[BandOfBuddies]

Judging you just raped me with bren carriers with flamers inside, just what we need is more buffs to brens.

Yey for total annhilation,
BandOfBuddies

[Demon767]

Ill spell it out for you

It is so bad, like i already highlighted, that no amount of 'constructive critism' can fix it. you have to start all over again.

I will even show you why because your feeble mind wasnt able to understand my analysis.

Move Desert Rats up

Move Mobile Reconnissance up

Move Piats fire on the move up

Defender of dunkirk is as T3

Trench clearer extra flame as a T4

Delete 17 Pounder Cloak in cover and gains 6 pounder movement speed

Delete Churchills move 50% FASTER

Delete Brens can button on the move

Delete Plant feet

Delete Rapid Fire

Exactly what i said before, but abit more 'clearer' for you aye.

[Mister Schmidt]

Updated with some of Demons very well put and thought out criticism.

Also added information about some abilities.

[Demon767]

sigh, okay, rapid fire cant just be 50% increased fire rate. look at the top t4, 25% + 50% is to much

so if you gonna leave rapid fire in, you gonna have to take the 25% main gun fire rate out

Also, you must edit the actual ability for Rapid fire to mimic Blitz krieg, essentially same things so reduced accuracy.

[Mister Schmidt]

See it's not actually as terrible as you make it out to be.

And it's only for 30 seconds. Only thing it would really benefit is Firefly, but I suppose it could be decreased to just 25% faster for Rapid Fire. That way it's only 50% overall.

[Demon767]

It would be beneficial to know the exact buffs of blitzkrieg so it gives you some standing point of a balanced ability, cuz id be very amused if blitz did only buff to 25%

[Mister Schmidt]

Blitzkreig buffs a hell of a lot more than Rapid Fire does, which is why it's only a T2

[Demon767]

are you referring to the rate of fire increase by blitzkrieg?

or the whole ability? like getting increased speed, heavy crush and reduced accuracy?

50% increased speed 25% reduced rate of fire 25% reduced accuracy. certainly not powerful as you may have noticed

You cant give increased speed, the T4 stops that, so the maximum would be just 25% r/f and leave it at that.

[Mister Schmidt]

Well in general, but I'll check the rof increase right now.

Bk is cooldown x0.75 and reload x0.5

That's just for tanks ofc, plenty of other buffs it has too.

Also, I'm not trying to mimic Blitzkreig, it's supposed to be how I've put it, nothing else.

[Demon767]

however, we are focusing on tanks, and now that i think of it, rapid fire, + T4 marder lockdown + vet 3 CCT + vet 3 firefly

no we cant have that.

[Mister Schmidt]

Compared to a vet 3 LW Panther with BK?

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Yes please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM7ZBVGDaKQ&feature=related

[Demon767]

We are focusing on this issue, please do not bring up any others, or "If thats OP why cant this be" arguments.

[Mister Schmidt]

I'm not, I'm not saying vet 3 LW panther with BK is OP, I think it's fine, I'm just comparing it to this.

And what you said is highly situational, I suppose it could be decreased to 25%, if it needed to be.

[Demon767]

What are you decreasing to 25%? ive already made the assumption that Rapid fire would be turned down to 25% and as i pointed out, would still be OP

I understand what you mean by situational, however, we dont balance on the basis of the 'average' skill level. We must assume that this can be continually and successfully repeated.

[Mister Schmidt]

Because I don't think a 25% rof increase on an ability that lasts for 30 seconds & can be used twice, in conjunction with something that stops your tank from moving, is particularly OP.

The only way it would be OP is if an enemy tank rolled into range of your ff, you hit lockdown, you hit rapid fire, and then he continues to move towards you. Otherwise he can just move out of range, and you've wasted the ability.

[Demon767]

The problem lies in the fact that, through your doctrine there are multiple ways to increase fire-rate to above 50% + the in-built buffs from Brit units (CCT). However, you are pleading an argument which makes your idea sound plausible, but you are overlooking the fact that, there are many over variables that encompass battlefield situations.

[Mister Schmidt]

I assume you're referring to Overclocked. This only effects Churchills, and cannot be combined with the other T4 in any way. Additionally, I have said I will probably change Rapid Fire to a 25% increase, meaning at any time you can only increase a Churchill's rof to 65% faster with use of a CCT and Rapid Fire which only lasts for 30 seconds. Most of the time it will be like, 40% faster, assuming you use a cct with the churchill all the time.

I thank you for actually being helpful at last, can you propose anything more workable?

Also, don't forget that this is not the actual definite draft, this is just the sort of thing I'd like to see, I'm well aware it has 0% chance of going in.

[Demon767]

All of this is read by the coders, its the accumulation of ideas that helps.

I understand, i referred to both Overclocked and Hobarts funnys (churchills and Fireflys)

Dont forget, that 30seconds can win one engagement, then the enemy must bring on more troops, by that time, the ability will be roughly 90-60 seconds before the battles start again and you dont have to wait till long for it to be used again to wtf pwn everything.

With that in mind, 65% on the churchill (any churchill varient) is far to much
also, The firefly rof would be far to much aswell.

What im trying to get at is that, any buff past 25% is far to much, and to a more broader extent, any accumulation of buffs that exceed 25% on tanks is not viable.

Maybe in the old doctrines, this would of been a very good doctrine, however, not with the current culture of doctrine buffs.

[MittinsKittens]

I got an Idea for you that you can use instead of that rapid fire off map if you want since people are pretty opposed to it.

Tank Buster Plane - Fires a Highly Accurate Anti-Tank Rocket (or Bomb) at the target location.
Idea behind it is to try and take out a tank when its on low life. Don't know the Damage it should do, but its no my job to balance the damage of it. I was thinking 1/4 of a PIV health bar but that might be a bit much...or not enough seeing as its a SINGLE use offmap *ponders*

Also, Add in a Stuart Crocodile under your T3 with the Churchill Croc. OMG mod has done it and it looks pretty cool
http://www.omgmod.org/wiki/index.php/Stuart_Crocodile

I would use it in my own Doctrine but I can't make a unique one so I can't be bothered