[US] Rangers - Need some love?

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[cloud234]

What are thoughts on this?

They are fine and dandy at 300MP, fairly priced at a premium due to their Fire-Up...

1. but is 60MP worth the Fire Up? I would compare Rangers against Wehr Grenadiers.

2. Thompsons at 180 Munitions? In vCoH, thompsons are 100 Mu vs Mp40s 50mu... Shouldn't it be 120 Mus at most to put it in line with other elite inf weapons?

300MP 180Mu does not kill KCH w/ Assault (Assault 50mu) or even Volks w/ Assault. Even getting 2 BARs is better than getting 1 thompson because of the suppression ability and better performance against PzGrens.

3. Bazookas. I know Myst did a crunch on zooks being better at cost vs schrecks.. but I still think it needs to go down lower in MUs because even medium tanks laugh at it. The only ones afraid... at maybe pumas and armoured cars which aren't really used. Probably Inf HTs, marders etc as well... but rangers still get hard countered by lots of stuff in PE and Wehr.

Maybe make
Thompsons -120Mu? (Or a value to be in line with other elite Inf... KCH is only 100 [Correction: 110] Mu!)
Bazookas - 60 Mu? or 70Mu at most? (Reduce MU cost on the Rifle Zook as well... 55Mu? I rather have a stickie at 60)
Full Package - 160-170 Mu? Give some discount on diminishing returns?

I really don't think its worth the 230 mu package nor the 180 mu and I really like to see more allied players use elite inf... Would be more fun to change up gameplay again as MG42 hard counters riflespam (no one seems to be using AB or Rangers...)  and the alternative is Brit Mandos.

[smurfORnot]

how can they not kill things with assualt,with rangers it's fairly easy to dodge it,in worst case scenario you can still pop fire up and escape assualt.

[Poppi]

ya im trying to use some rangers now... HOLY SHIT. EXPENSIVE!! Their MU is through the roof.

I think their zook price might be okay. U do get 2 of them afterall. But maybe all the zooks can drop down in price by a small bit, but i dont see it.

Tommys... thats where the problem is. 180 mu. I can get 2bars for less. And grease guns  (mp40 equivalent) are deadly up close. Like i would not send a Ranger with tommys to  attack 2  squads of mp40s. which are way cheaper.

With full MU i can get like 8-10 inf combo squads of Bars and Grease Guns, and all the support i want.   As opposed to just a few rangers with tommy guns or full package.

Right now seems if u run with rangers, u wont be running with much else. They suck up alot of resources. Think price drop is needed. Or offer greaseguns to them as well?

[BigDick]

What are thoughts on this?

They are fine and dandy at 300MP, fairly priced at a premium due to their Fire-Up...

1. but is 60MP worth the Fire Up? I would compare Rangers against Wehr Grenadiers.

fireup AND elite armor AND good grenades AND more men AND more squad health

[8thRifleRegiment]

rangers are perfectly fine, and have thier place, i cannot count how many times ive had an smg ranger sqaud with 20+ infantry kills, you cannt run one sqaud into three sqauds and expect to win, thers circumstances, but its a great allround unit anyways. Pair them with an hmg or two, and they get very nice

[DarkSoldierX]

The only problem I see with rangers cost is the Thompson. Thompson should be 165 MU not 180 but thats it and maybe full pack should go down with lower tompson price.

You must be crazy to think the bazooka's deal isn't a good deal >.<

[cloud234]

fireup AND elite armor AND good grenades AND more men AND more squad health

LOL grenade = normal rifle grenade. Fire up can only be used once. More squad health doesn't mean much if u meet assault. Lets have a list of readily available counters.

Rangers w/ Thompson: 310MP 180MU

KCH w/ Assault: 290MP 110MU + 50MU [All Factions]
Volks w/ Assault: 195MP + 60MU (Buy more volks if needed/Assault on all volks) [Blitz]
KCH w/ Oak Leaves: 380MP + 140MU [Terror]
Grenadiers w/ Dual LMGs: 240MP + 135 MU [All Factions] (Terror - Add Marksmanshot for the lol)
Volks w/ MP40s (The cheapman's counter): 195MP + 60 MU x 2 [All Factions]

Thats quite vastly underperforming for an elite infantry.

I think their zook price might be okay. U do get 2 of them afterall. But maybe all the zooks can drop down in price by a small bit, but i dont see it.

I play wehr against rangers and P4's w/ Skirts laugh at them. The rest of the wehrs/PE just kites them. Sure, you've got a weapon but you ain't hitting anything with it.

Right now seems if u run with rangers, u wont be running with much else. They suck up alot of resources. Think price drop is needed. Or offer greaseguns to them as well?

I think its better to keep them unique and drop the prices on it.

rangers are perfectly fine, and have thier place, i cannot count how many times ive had an smg ranger sqaud with 20+ infantry kills, you cannt run one sqaud into three sqauds and expect to win, thers circumstances, but its a great allround unit anyways. Pair them with an hmg or two, and they get very nice

And I can't imagine how many times I've seen KCH/Grenadiers with 20+ infantry kills. I don't think you've actually used Rangers much.

Following on with my first point: Are you talking about killing support weapons and defenceless vanilla infantry only???

The only problem I see with rangers cost is the Thompson. Thompson should be 165 MU not 180 but thats it and maybe full pack should go down with lower tompson price.

You must be crazy to think the bazooka's deal isn't a good deal >.<

Thompson at 165 munitions is still terrible. 2 BAR rifles > 1 Thompson Ranger even at that price.

Like I've said, I speak from both the perspective of an allies and axis player. Bazookas are just quite worthless because kiting is a common skill nowadays.

Also, while you're at it... drop their pool value as well. Unlike KCH, they don't have Heroic armour and the DPS of Thompsons aren't as good as KCH.

I notice as well it is 310 MP now.

[Poppi]

LOL grenade = normal rifle grenade. Fire up can only be used once. More squad health doesn't mean much if u meet assault. Lets have a list of readily available counters.

Rangers w/ Thompson: 310MP 180MU

KCH w/ Assault: 290MP 110MU + 50MU [All Factions]
Volks w/ Assault: 195MP + 60MU (Buy more volks if needed/Assault on all volks) [Blitz]
KCH w/ Oak Leaves: 380MP + 140MU [Terror]
Grenadiers w/ Dual LMGs: 240MP + 135 MU [All Factions] (Terror - Add Marksmanshot for the lol)
Volks w/ MP40s (The cheapman's counter): 195MP + 60 MU x 2 [All Factions]

Thats quite vastly underperforming for an elite infantry.

I play wehr against rangers and P4's w/ Skirts laugh at them. The rest of the wehrs/PE just kites them. Sure, you've got a weapon but you ain't hitting anything with it.

I think its better to keep them unique and drop the prices on it.

And I can't imagine how many times I've seen KCH/Grenadiers with 20+ infantry kills. I don't think you've actually used Rangers much.

Following on with my first point: Are you talking about killing support weapons and defenceless vanilla infantry only???

Thompson at 165 munitions is still terrible. 2 BAR rifles > 1 Thompson Ranger even at that price.

Like I've said, I speak from both the perspective of an allies and axis player. Bazookas are just quite worthless because kiting is a common skill nowadays.

Also, while you're at it... drop their pool value as well. Unlike KCH, they don't have Heroic armour and the DPS of Thompsons aren't as good as KCH.

I notice as well it is 310 MP now.

well thats nicely thought out.
Im for lowering Tommys. Im having a hard time using this expensive weapon to kill troops with shittier weapons. Its not worth the price. I know i can roll in with 2 bars  or 3 grease guns and probably kill KCH, which will still be cheaper than tommys.

And i guess zooks have been weakened so they can have their place against poor armored mediums and light vehicles, guess thats why even under TR doc their bonus is half of what the ATG is now.

So i guess lower both then? So how expensive should tommys be? 140?120? I guess zooks 60? But i rather get full packaged than just zooks. Zooks alone are worthless.

[Hicks58]

Zooks are rear armour hitters. If your gonna run zooks, run them in pairs. If a LV comes your way, you'll leave it crippled on the first salvo of 4 zooks... If a tank comes your way, split the squads and start getting rear hits. Seriously, the damage on zooks is great, you just need the penetrating hits to take advantage of it... TR will not solve any penetration issues. The only thing TR is good for is the accuracy and 10% extra damage.

Lemme put it this way, two squads of vet 3 Rangers with TR zooks put out enough damage to drop two thirds of a Tiger's health if all 4 zooks hit the rear armour. Naaaasty shite.

Thompsons... Dont even think about using them unless your running a Triage tbh. If you can keep 4-6 guys alive in that squad, it keeps on raping. The price is a pain in the arse though... If you want a substantial amount of Thompsons, any respectable amount of Shermans or ATG's goes right out the window, meaning your AT is probably going to have to rely on M10's and a handful of zooks.

Thompsons make a mess of any Infantry one on one with the exception of Oak Leaf KCH. You *Can* guarantee victory with a well placed grenade, but that ups the cost to 215 munitions, which is a hell of a drain.

Oh, any squad with assault, simply learn to pay attention... Run away, and get something else to shoot at the squad that is chasing you. It's quite entertaining when a vet 3 KCH squad pops assault to follow a ranger squad into a Sherman... Soon makes them sod off or hit the panic button.

[RikiRude]

i believe ranger mu costs could go down slightly, 180 is insane, stens are only what, 135?

And full package should go down, because as soon as you lose one man it's kind of nullified.

[lionel23]

I do agree that I would like to see a slight price decrease in SMG, and particularly the full package one.  Bazookas are fine at 80MU.

Also think MP44s do need a slight decrease too, if all the assault weapons came down just a little, would make MP44 assault grens, KCH, Sten and SMG packages more worthwhile as anti-inf.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I'm all for a price reduction, since the Thompson is too overpriced for what it does. I think that the MP44 is fine as it is though.

[AmPM]

How is the MP44 fine as is? Also, MP40 needs a price reduction. Never see them anymore.

[DarkSoldierX]

Mp44s get plenty of kills. Just that assault grens could be -10 mun less. Mp40's dont need a price reduction, people just dont feel its right for meta. There is no more volk spam due to faust increase unless its assault volks, which in that case they spend all their mun on assault not Mp40's. Mp40's are fine for defending their MG's, and do lots of DPS standing at close range for its price.

[Poppi]

How is the MP44 fine as is? Also, MP40 needs a price reduction. Never see them anymore.

how much is mp40? Grease guns are 65mu and i feel fine with that price. They hurt alot.

[AmPM]

Grease guns are better.

[Poppi]

Grease guns are better.

oh when i first started grease guns i heard its the mp40 equivalent or was it the mp44?

[PonySlaystation]

It's the same as/equivalent of mp40 but Riflemen is a better platform.

[AmPM]

Grease Guns are an Improved MP40, more accuracy and moving accuracy.

[Mysthalin]

Me and cloud just went through the stats of the sten and the thompson..

Essentially, the sten and thompson share the exact same stats except the sten has :

*shorter cooldown.
*Lower reload frequency

Thompson has :

*Faster reload (very marginal)
*Better at fighting KCH and falls

Other than that.. They're the exact same weapon with the same burst duration, bullets per burst, accuracy, damage, moving modifiers, suppressed target modifiers, etc. etc.

And you get 6 stens for 135 mu, while only 4 thompsons for 180.

Something smells rotten in Denmark here.