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[US] Airborne Carbines
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Topic: [US] Airborne Carbines (Read 24502 times)
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Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #20 on:
July 03, 2011, 05:17:01 am »
Airbourne riflemen are just riflemen with a fancy skin and a paradrop ability, everyone here realises that, right?
I'm inclinded to agree that the LMG won't do them much good as an upgrade, something a little more 'assault-y' would much better fit them. Though AB really shouldn't be getting something like the thompson.
Quote
The reason why AB became retarded last time
No, the reason why AB got retarded last time was because AB riflemen were essentially AB with Bars and stickies.
Logged
PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #21 on:
July 03, 2011, 05:23:34 am »
But if they're an exact copy of riflemen with paradrop then why would you use them? They cost more, have more pool value and they wont get on the field any faster.
There are enough BAR riflemen already. Wouldn't it be better if carbines were an anti infantry upgrade for airborne riflemen?
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Sharks are not monsters Henley, they are cute, cuddly and misunderstood. They love humans. sometimes they love TOO much. They love people so much that sometimes their kisses separate people into two flailing pieces which are consumed by other sharks in a frenzy of peace and joy.
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #22 on:
July 03, 2011, 05:39:29 am »
Quote from: Unkn0wn on July 03, 2011, 05:17:01 am
I'm inclinded to agree that the LMG won't do them much good as an upgrade, something a little more 'assault-y' would much better fit them. Though AB really shouldn't be getting something like the thompson.
I've run the DPS calculations. They won't be even remotely as powerful as thompsons - but should be awesomely cool.
Quote
No, the reason why AB got retarded last time was because AB riflemen were essentially AB with Bars and stickies.
And that literally means nothing. It is but a piece of the cause of the problem, not the problem itself.
Logged
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #23 on:
July 03, 2011, 06:05:26 am »
It was one of the major pieces of the problem as far as I'm concerned, i.e AB players being able to field blobs of RR AB + BAR/sticky AB Riflemen. The other part of the problem was ridiculous doctrine abilities.
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Smokaz
Honoured Member
Posts: 11418
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #24 on:
July 03, 2011, 07:07:46 am »
Just to comment here. What people are trying to say is that they..*gasp* know that regular AB with garands are not cost effective .. against infantry.. *after* using their grenades. But that they want them to be - so that the entire scrapping of the AB rifle returns with a new AI upgrade for AB.
Maybe its not a good idea for them to have a elite infantry that can do a cost-effective job at AI on top of having the most annoying, reliable, effective AT weapon of them all? HP below "tank kills 1 guy per shot" is NOT irrelevant; its what separates the AB squad from losing members to a wehr mortar round and not doing it for instance, while a rifle is almost always down 1 or more members upon a mortar hit.
It's fine as it works now. AB riflemen only needs their stickies toned down to 60 like normal riflemen, and down to 200 MP. If they are rifles in every aspect other than the paradrop, then I see no reason for why they should cost more MP.
Really what we have now is the solution people wanted. As long as AB riflemen has the same pool cost and upgrade price as regular rifles, they are more than good enough at supporting RRs on a drop.
Which means:
-20 mp
-30 muni to sticky upgrade
Done deal.
«
Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 07:14:00 am by Smokaz
»
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #25 on:
July 03, 2011, 07:13:28 am »
Quote from: Smokaz on July 03, 2011, 07:07:46 am
Squad HP is NOT irrelevant; its what separates the AB squad from losing members to a wehr mortar round and not doing it for instance.
Not squad HP that does it, Smokaz.
Squad HP is absolutely irrelevant to everything. A 30 rifle squad(weapon damage and suppression appropriately dilluted) at 330 HP would perform FAR worse than a 6 rifle squad with 330 HP - even though squad HP is the same. Don't believe me? Make a squad in corsix like i've suggested, and send it against a volks squad. See what happens.
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Smokaz
Honoured Member
Posts: 11418
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #26 on:
July 03, 2011, 07:15:19 am »
I updated the post. Anyways you are dumb. +1 to that. Don't need to make a new AB riflemen to accompany RRs on drops; people wanted a cheaper option and the price just needs to reflect that. Right now AB riflemen are more expensive than regular rifles while having the same stats, right? That's what isn't adding up. Once you get doctrine buffs on those guys you'll have the tougher AT AB with fireup and their slightly less buff ab riflemen brothers who have to, you know, actually be microed in a once and while and used with some forethought. (Like you have to with riflemen, even if that thought is "you're all gonna die to accomplish my goal right now"."
«
Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 07:17:05 am by Smokaz
»
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #27 on:
July 03, 2011, 07:26:29 am »
how about the grease gun upgrade for ab, it's not as powerful as tommy's, sucks at long and med range and is good at close, is cheap and allows them to use their ab armor effectively.
heck actually, switch the grease guns from infantry to ab and give infantry but give it as an upgrade for rangers, it fits them so much better.
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Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #28 on:
July 03, 2011, 07:29:06 am »
Quote
heck actually, switch the grease guns from infantry to ab and give infantry but give it as an upgrade for rangers, it fits them so much better
That could work.
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #29 on:
July 03, 2011, 08:04:30 am »
Quote from: Smokaz on July 03, 2011, 07:15:19 am
I updated the post. Anyways you are dumb. +1 to that.
GJ on the ad hominem. Really brings your point across.
Your change to your post is completely irrelevant because I never argued that infantry member HP under surviving one tank shot is irrelevant. I said squad HP is irrelevant. If you're going to create a moving goalpost, at least be sure it applies.
I don't see any reason why Airborne shouldn't have access to an effective anti-infantry upgrade that costs munitions on a pool-intensive platform. If anything, it would create less troubles than adding a parachuting, cheap, non-pool intensive anti-infantry solution to the doctrine (A-la last working AB doctrine instalment).
But hey, be stuck in your ways. I know me, david and cloud are going to love paradropping 75 popcap of pure rape onto one side of the battlefield to instantly rape somebody... and then just keep on doing it.
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #30 on:
July 03, 2011, 08:41:25 am »
Quote from: Unkn0wn on July 03, 2011, 07:29:06 am
That could work.
been suggesting this for a while...:shrug:
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Hicks58
Development
Posts: 5343
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #31 on:
July 03, 2011, 10:21:08 am »
I make a thread, give it a day, and this is what happens lol.
Greaseguns on Airborne... Yeah, that'll be the most expensive MP40 Volks squad I've ever paid for. That's all Greaseguns are, a carbon copy of Volks MP40's, and are utterly terrible at anything but point blank; and when you are standing still - Due to a 0.2 moving accuracy modifier.
M2 Carbines would be nice for Airborne. I'm still more inclined to just giving Airborne Garands or adjusting standard Carbine DPS to be decent close range, mediocre at medium range and same old pathetic at long range. Their 0.75 moving incoming accuracy would be helpful with those kinds of stats and would mesh nicely.
And no, nothing like SMG rape at close range - They are still just Carbines.
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Quote from: brn4meplz on November 05, 2012, 10:45:05 am
I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
Quote from: Mysthalin on March 27, 2014, 04:57:09 pm
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #32 on:
July 03, 2011, 10:39:44 am »
AFAIK Garands wouldn't mean a significant increase in dps.
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RikiRude
Donator
Posts: 4376
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #33 on:
July 03, 2011, 10:57:30 am »
AB rifles are silly. AB rifles should be normal AB units, less pool cost. have garands, have the option for bar upgrade (no SF) until some other weapon whether it be M2 carbines, or greaseguns or what have you. no sticky upgrade. not sure how much the should cost but its pretty simple. i dont get why its all such an issue, making a AB company is tough because of the pool they have.
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Quote from: Killer344
Killer344: "Repent: sory no joke i just had savage diorea"
Quote from: Malgoroth on October 10, 2011, 05:03:49 pm
... or a fat ass cock sucking churchill being stupid
WildZontar
Donator
Posts: 1168
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #34 on:
July 03, 2011, 12:43:17 pm »
I think all of the problems of AB can be solve if the gosh darn doctrine was implemented.
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Quote from: Smokaz on February 05, 2011, 06:24:08 am
Zontar is a filthy sludge-dwelling muppet, thats why.
Quote from: Killer344 on July 21, 2011, 08:10:45 pm
Y U SAVED US FROM GOING INTO BANKRUPT!
ALL BOW DOWN TO WILDZONTAR!
jackmccrack
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2484
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #35 on:
July 03, 2011, 01:31:27 pm »
Quote from: WildZontar on July 03, 2011, 12:43:17 pm
I think all of the problems of AB can be solve if the gosh darn doctrine was implemented.
+1
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Let's talk about PIATs in a car.
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #36 on:
July 03, 2011, 02:50:24 pm »
Quote from: Unkn0wn on July 03, 2011, 10:39:44 am
AFAIK Garands wouldn't mean a significant increase in dps.
Yes, they would....Carbines are the WORST gun in the game.
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Vermillion_Hawk
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #37 on:
July 03, 2011, 03:03:03 pm »
What about the Luger? Useless without the criticals. Much more so than carbines.
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What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets.
- Andre Malraux
- Dracula
smurfORnot
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #38 on:
July 03, 2011, 03:10:46 pm »
give officer mp44
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Katusha
EIR Veteran
Posts: 989
Re: [US] Airborne Carbines
«
Reply #39 on:
July 03, 2011, 03:12:40 pm »
Quote from: smurfORnot on July 03, 2011, 03:10:46 pm
give officer
2 mp44's
fixed
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