Double Shrecks

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[RikiRude]

I believe double shrecks really hinder the game in all its forms, and what makes them worse is buffs they get from doctrines. There is no reason that you should be capable of not only having that much AT on such a small amount of pop cap, but doctrine buffs make it overkill. This gives axis the choice to alpha strike any armor on the field. Allies have nothing that is at all comparable in defeating armor.

Right now I have a defensive company with mid/bottom T3s, and double shreck grens, so not only will I have 4 shrecks shooting, they will also be getting a +30% damage/accuracy modifier. Any vehicle these guys get near is toast. Now I'm not that great of a player, any skilled player can easily pack up 2x grens and a officers in a HT and run up to tanks and rape them NP all day.

Storms aren't too big of a problem, that is until they are able to run with their tanks, or get elite armor, this brings them into the unbalanced category.

I can't comment on PE as I don't play them, but I know their TH get double shrecks.


Now most people will say "well that's a lot of munitions to sink into a few units" but my point is that's the only AT you need on the field, and that AT has the ability to out right kill anything that slips into its range or severely cripple it, and for only 10 pop.

Some suggestions I have:

First off I hope everyone can agree with me on this, no unit should be able to carry more than 2x shrecks (this could go across to rrs/zooks/piats if people feel that's fit) there should be no 3x shreck squads because someone has a supply drop or something.

Any double shreck units should be separate units, and should be 6-7 pop cap. It seems more feasible to have at much AT in 12-14 pop rather than just 10.

Double shreck units could also simply not be affected by any damage/accuracy/cool down buffs they may get from the doctrines, I'm not really into that idea, but I figure anything would be worth putting forward.


I know there will be people who think this is a totally stupid post, but I don't think it really adds anything to the game, being able to simply rape vehicles and tanks with such ease doesn't make sense for game play. Nothing other than artillery can do that to infantry for such low pop cap and allies have nothing that can rape tanks in that matter.

[Katusha]

The accuracy buffs make them pretty hard to kite with tanks at long range

but then again you shouldn't be fighting a shreck blob with a tank i guess

[Groundfire]

If your solution to this problem is to make dual schreck grens a separate unit with separate pop, then I think the weapon cache pool will solve this problem for you.

[Hicks58]

I'm of the opinion that no handheld AT should *Ever* get damage buffs. Especially handheld AT that is already as damaging as a Shreck. Accuracy and Penetration are one thing, but when you can one-shot a Sherman with 4 Shrecks thanks to Officer buffs, things start getting silly.

Damage buffs on tanks is one thing, purely because on units where damage buffs are truly noticable (Pershing, Tiger and equivalents or above) you WONT have 4 of them to stare down the barrel at once.

[TheVolskinator]

+1 thread!

[nikomas]

At the risk of sounding biased because blitz is my favorite doctrine, I never found single shreck stormtroopers squad worth using.
Thing is, if you dont scare that Sherman into retreat the moment you fire it will probably destroy your squad before you get another salvo of, now that's not something I'd like happen to an ambush unit...

Also, the double shrecks in their current form are very, very expensive... 300 munitions for 2 shrecks on stormtroopers. A player wont have a lot of them, that's for sure. If you were to kill those two squads with some infantry (not a hard thing to do to ambush units when you find them) you would have made him lose half of his ammo on two units.

How much do they cost on the defensive's grenadiers?

[RikiRude]

i agree nik, i mentioned that storms werent a big problem. the problem comes from the fact that they sprint when uncloaked near a tank and they are a problem with elite armor.

though i agree at 300 for each its really pricey, for defensive grens its 220.

[nikomas]

i agree nik, i mentioned that storms werent a big problem. the problem comes from the fact that they sprint when uncloaked near a tank and they are a problem with elite armor.

though i agree at 300 for each its really pricey, for defensive grens its 220.

Speaking as the annoying stormtroopers user with "Keep it moving" and "Battle Hardened" I still think that 2ATG's and 1 dual shreck squad is better than a pair of them, trust me, I love my stromtroopers.

The one on the defensive tree might be a bit of an issue thou.

[3rdCondor]

Double shrecks are expensive as hell so they seem ok to me.

[Katusha]

Double shrecks are expensive as hell so they seem ok to me.

For storms yes, for defensive grens, it's not even 120x2 = 240. They get a discount at 220 munitions

[Audemed]

Double shreck falls TB are silly with the bottom T4, LOLSPRINT in, fire, LOLSPRINT out, every time.

[spinn72]

Double shreck falls TB are silly with the bottom T4, LOLSPRINT in, fire, LOLSPRINT out, every time.

They do have the downside that they can't reload whilst sprinting. In friendly territory you have to click stop and wait for it which is frustrating.

But on the upside they have more HP per man and airborne armour.
mmmmmmmm

[NightRain]

Can we nerf PIAT damage then as when it does a dual strike it deals 180 damage total? I mean it is kinda OP when it comes in pairs and only 4 pop platform that can shoot over houses and roll around in a mario kart blowing up tanks and etc with their piats. I mean 180 damage per dual shot. That's 90 damage per piat. Two squads is only 8 pop and that's 4 piats total of 360 damage per shot. Half health from a P4. Add in Ambush and you get jizzable damage. I suggest that double piats go away and piat upgrade only gives 1 piat.


Personally I'll say that Officer buffed Schrecks are crazy but normally double schrecks are risk/reward. Arty, Light vehicles, assault infantry- no a single BAR can get rid of that 220 munitions. That is nearly 2 PAKs worth of AT on 5 pop. Plus you put tier 2 into the game and risk loosing that 88, Bunker, Rocket Artilery etc and have to skip few things. Therefore it will remain risk reward.

[RikiRude]

Can we nerf PIAT damage then as when it does a dual strike it deals 180 damage total? I mean it is kinda OP when it comes in pairs and only 4 pop platform that can shoot over houses and roll around in a mario kart blowing up tanks and etc with their piats. I mean 180 damage per dual shot. That's 90 damage per piat. Two squads is only 8 pop and that's 4 piats total of 360 damage per shot. Half health from a P4. Add in Ambush and you get jizzable damage. I suggest that double piats go away and piat upgrade only gives 1 piat.


Personally I'll say that Officer buffed Schrecks are crazy but normally double schrecks are risk/reward. Arty, Light vehicles, assault infantry- no a single BAR can get rid of that 220 munitions. That is nearly 2 PAKs worth of AT on 5 pop. Plus you put tier 2 into the game and risk loosing that 88, Bunker, Rocket Artilery etc and have to skip few things. Therefore it will remain risk reward.

sappers are higher pool cost, and weapons cache will fix that, sappers are also much easier to kill than grens, also i dont often see piats coming in and alpha striking axis armor which is the primary topic in all this.

[NightRain]

sappers are higher pool cost, and weapons cache will fix that, sappers are also much easier to kill than grens, also i dont often see piats coming in and alpha striking axis armor which is the primary topic in all this.

Nothing can alpha kill a tank, period. Except a dual PIAT squads in theory should be able to alpha kill a StuG with ambush volley. Add in veterancy and they will alpha a StuG. Sappers also come with Soldier armor which gives them accuracy reductions from several weapons and due to piats being able to fire without return fire the problem of fragility is questionable.

[marda145]

Double shreck falls TB are silly with the bottom T4, LOLSPRINT in, fire, LOLSPRINT out, every time.

+ LOLACCURACY

[BigDick]

this thread is made of fail

[Scotzmen]

this thread is made of win

[nikomas]

The thing about shrecks is that they are the only really "Good" handheald AT option...
I'll be damned if I ever touch zook's or AT Rifles for example, RR's might be good at chipping the health but it's still nowhere close. Piat's do their thing alright but they rely on something inbetween you and the target, and that your enemy has the micro skills of an old man.

"Oh look, Piat's, I'll just reverse this thing whenever they fire trololololol"

I really do prefeer playing axis, but when playing allies it always feels like I'm down to either throwing wolverines at enemy armor or pray that I have some AP rounds left, now to be fair here it's not like the wher has a cheap suicidal tank destroyer...

Haha, but it's not like the allies have any heavy tanks

[Audemed]

Zooks just take skill, AT rifles are weak, but still useful, as they can hurt anything other than superheavies (it just takes forever). AT rifles are a must for armor vs PE, tbh. No point in having them available to luft tho, shrecks are vastly superior.