Who did the doctrines?

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[RikiRude]

I'm just curious, how did we get something so bad ass as this new terror doctrine, but something so lackluster as the AB doctrine? Is it one person that wrote up drafts for both? A combination of ideas from different devs? A dart board with ideas on it? Or do you all get together and put the ideas out there then one person tweaks with the numbers (like whether it's 10% accuracy buff or 15%)?

[BigDick]

whine more dude srly 

what does it matter who makes doctrines probably not only 1 person

[Hicks58]

AFAIK, Terror is Groundfire's brainchild, while AB is a kit-bash of multiple people's ideas. If this is indeed the case, it would explain the very... Non-directional, feel of AB.

[EIRRMod]

I'm just curious, how did we get something so bad ass as this new terror doctrine, but something so lackluster as the AB doctrine? Is it one person that wrote up drafts for both? A combination of ideas from different devs? A dart board with ideas on it? Or do you all get together and put the ideas out there then one person tweaks with the numbers (like whether it's 10% accuracy buff or 15%)?

Terror was done in a much different way than all the other doctrines.

- A draft made by a SDT member(s) (or others) was posted.
- The balance team lead then sets the tier (Unlock row Tier 1 or Ability row tier 4 etc etc)
- The balance team then discusses each ability on the tier, compares it with the other abilities in its line AND column.
- Each ability is then passed, pending discussion, rework or scrapped (then replaced).
- This continues until a tier is passed, and then they do the next tier.

It was ordered so that the top table was discussed first, then the unlock tier.

We only did it for terror, because the system was only put in place by tank130/Groundfire in time for the last draft.

This process will be done in build 0800 for the rest of the doctrines.

[PonySlaystation]

There is a thread that shows how the development team works. I'm sure someone can link it.

[Groundfire]

I think that it must be stated that i tried to follow Bob's doctrine philosophy to the letter.

Alot of time went into the draft for it to gel. What eirrmod described was how we molded the clay, but truth is that we didnt change that much from the original draft.

A strong foundation tbh.

[Tymathee]

well, if terror is so awesome cuz of this draft, then i'm hoping to see something similar for the rest

[Unkn0wn]

The terror draft literally took ages where as the AB draft is traditionally a much more difficult doctrine to get right and was probably not given the needed amount of attention. I don't think it's fundamentally flawed, it just needs some of its SCAR abilities to go in and some of the T4s to be overhauled. (Relatively easy tweaks could already go a long way)

[RikiRude]

very interesting. i think everyone would be excited to see all the doctrines look like that, so it's great to hear that's what you guys are pressing for.

AFAIK, Terror is Groundfire's brainchild, while AB is a kit-bash of multiple people's ideas. If this is indeed the case, it would explain the very... Non-directional, feel of AB.

yes i think you say it best, terror is a one way street to awesome, and AB needed to stop at a gas station to ask where it needed to go.

[8thRifleRegiment]

I'm just curious, how did we get something so bad ass as this new terror doctrine, but something so lackluster as the AB doctrine? Is it one person that wrote up drafts for both? A combination of ideas from different devs? A dart board with ideas on it? Or do you all get together and put the ideas out there then one person tweaks with the numbers (like whether it's 10% accuracy buff or 15%)?

New airbourne is perfectly balanced, people are crying becuase its not OP tbfh, normally in eirr, airbourne is always retardedly broken, now its actually balanced and you can still make a super gimmick. Here riki, if you cannt make this work, your doing it wrong, Middle T4, snipers, airbourne rifleman with some BARs and atgs. + as many hellcats as you can fit

[tank130]

I think that it must be stated that i tried to follow Bob's doctrine philosophy to the letter.

Alot of time went into the draft for it to gel. What eirrmod described was how we molded the clay, but truth is that we didnt change that much from the original draft.

A strong foundation tbh.

I would also like to add that Ground took a lot of flak trying to stay in that Philosophy. Often Balance members and community members get too caught up in the "Old Ways" and can't move forward.
Ground worked very hard to keep the draft in line, but compromising when warranted.

We work hard to be a team  on the Dev team, but we do not always agree. I believe strongly on making the product as close to perfect before we release it. Others feel strongly that it is more productive to release it and fine tune it after.

Terror followed my thoughts, AB did not. But that does not mean one system is better than the other yet. Both Docs are now being play tested. Both docs may require fine tuning. If both take about the same time to tweak, then my system is not productive. My system takes way longer to get the product out.

Only play testing will prove the most efficient system. Theory crafting in this forum will prove nothing.

[EIRRMod]

We work hard to be a team  on the Dev team, but we do not always agree. I believe strongly on making the product as close to perfect before we release it. Others feel strongly that it is more productive to release it and fine tune it after.

Terror followed my thoughts, AB did not. But that does not mean one system is better than the other yet. Both Docs are now being play tested. Both docs may require fine tuning. If both take about the same time to tweak, then my system is not productive. My system takes way longer to get the product out.

Both methods have/had their merit - however I believe the second way (your way) resulted in a product that needed far less testing/balancing in the end, while the other was released to the public THEN balance tuned.  If they take the same amount of time in the end (which I believe they do) - then its a matter of preference on to release then balance, or balance then release later.

[tank130]

Both methods have/had their merit - however I believe the second way (your way) resulted in a product that needed far less testing/balancing in the end, while the other was released to the public THEN balance tuned.  If they take the same amount of time in the end (which I believe they do) - then its a matter of preference on to release then balance, or balance then release later.

Ya, but I own your mom, so we are probably going to do it my way.

[EIRRMod]

Ya, but I own your mom, so we are probably going to do it my way.

Psssh noone owns my mum, they just rent her ;p

[spinn72]

These drafts were made when I was a member on the BT for a short time.

The Terror draft (Groundfire's child) was worked on as a main priority for probably close to 2 months, going through each unlock one by one, getting a majority decision from the BT. AB really is a mix of everyone's opinions. It was made much more quickly and didn't go under the same amount of quality control measures that Terror did, but I still believe it has come out strongly. Like Unkn0wn has said, it's a step in the right direction for an Airborne doctrine (which have traditionally been stupidly OP), and once it receives SCAR coding, it'll be fine to play with. No direct AB buffs and fitting to the 'theme' of the airborne doctrine were the main points emphasized, and I believe these goals were reached. It's easily stronger than anything Armour company is gonna throw at you, and, lets face it, rangers are shit, but as for buffs, it's probably on par with Infantry doc.

Sure, it's not as basic and straightforward as Terror doc, it's a bit more advanced and the buffs are a little less noticeable but that's no reason to call it horribly UP. A bad player is still gonna be a bad player with AB, not sure if I can say the same for Terror :p.

[EliteGren]

It's easily stronger than anything Armour company is gonna throw at you

Tell that to GF and Wind who me and david just beat using double armor after playing several fail AB games.

[Malgoroth]

Sure, it's not as basic and straightforward as Terror doc, it's a bit more advanced and the buffs are a little less noticeable but that's no reason to call it horribly UP. A bad player is still gonna be a bad player with AB, not sure if I can say the same for Terror :p.

I'm sure I can say the same for Terror. For all their awesomeness, scoped MP44s wont cover bad play. PPills don't turn your men into unkillable terminators. Bad play still dooms them. Elite armor support teams with MP44s just become food for fire queers, so if you can't micro them the shit away from crocs/flamers then they might as well be regular ol' support crews.

I want to see how my terror fairs against your airborne... I need to try and avenge the soldiers you slaughtered in games past.

[nugnugx]

actualy in terror there are some of my ideas also   - the gas rounds and better skirts

[brn4meplz]

I still want Historical Chem weapons for the Axis.

Death on contact. I win

[spinn72]

I'm sure I can say the same for Terror. For all their awesomeness, scoped MP44s wont cover bad play. PPills don't turn your men into unkillable terminators. Bad play still dooms them. Elite armor support teams with MP44s just become food for fire queers, so if you can't micro them the shit away from crocs/flamers then they might as well be regular ol' support crews.

I want to see how my terror fairs against your airborne... I need to try and avenge the soldiers you slaughtered in games past.

Shame I don't play anymore :p.

You had countless chances . I've got like 6 other games in my games queue waiting, currently i'm making my way through Dark Souls which, as frustrating as it is, is still less frustrating than the ignorance and stupidity on these forums. The good part of not playing is that I don't really care anymore!