Panzerschreks

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[Valexandes]

I don't have any issue with ranger zooks they are good but both armor rifle zooks and the infantry equipment rifle zooks are terrible. 1 zook 50 munitions? that should be as effective as a single schrek no?

Also all vehicles that zooks are viable against deal with infantry so well that the squad is dead before the zooks actually do anything. The accuracy of the zooks at mid range is also crippling while schreks hit much better at mid range.

[Hicks58]

Also, Quads are not killing tools. They are a very mobile and long ranged suppression tool.

A shreck blob isn't a threat if you never let them get in range, and the mobility of the Quad will make sure that they never get in range if used in capable hands.

Considering that Skirts now cost fuel, I'm actually seeing a fair few Axis without Skirts these days.

Btw, Zooks will rape Ostwinds if you get yourself heavy cover and stay at medium to long range... Just gotta take your time and realise that you aren't going to alpha strike it unless you happen to have a pair of Ranger squads. Anything else you should have more than just the humble Riflezook. An ATG + Riflezook is a pretty potent combination.

Oh and Smokaz, if a unit can hold AT and be competent against AI, then chances are it will become effective in enough numbers. Riflemen included I dare say.

Also, no, a single zook should NOT be on par with a single shreck. Single zooks and single shrecks perform and are used very differently.

[Valexandes]

My mistake. I was thinking schreks were 105 muni for a pair. As that is not the case it's far less of an issue than i was thinking. The mid range accuracy I feel is still a tad lower than it should be.

Quads also get murdered by that schrek that registers as hit at mid range even when the quad winds up being quite far away when the schrek actually is fired.

[Hicks58]

Fella, if your quad has entered medium range for a Shreck, you've done something very wrong on the micro level.

The only time you close in to medium or close range, is if no AT is present, or you've pinned the squad(s) so they can't return fire.

Zooks are quite competent at hitting things at medium range, if you really want them to shine, go Infantry and get Tank Reapers. The extra bit of accuracy goes very far for medium range Zooking.

[TheVolskinator]

Being a T3, can the infantry company riflezooks have noticeably higher accuracy? I wouldnt mind so much if they could hit something at range--Ive seen so many homing shrecks in my days, but never a homing zook. And with the price drop, riflezooks are so cost ineffective--15 more MU for another zook on an elite armor squad with fire up...why is it even in a T3 unlock (meh so-so SMGs, crap handheld AT, and an only sometimes-useful smoke nade...).

PzShrecks are epic. On a riflemen squad they become goddamn plasma cannons; makes my day when I can get a triple BAR-and-shreck riflesquad. With stickies.

EDIT: If bazookas could fire a single callie rocket/walking stuka rocket in place of its current one, what would be the shift in effect? Id like to entertain the idea of an AI-ish bazooka; we've all seen games like CoD or BC2 (carl gustav spam) where the blast radius sends guys flying if it hits. Sure the armor pen. would be much higher, but callie rockets arent the most damaging things in the world afaik.

[EliteGren]

On a riflemen squad they become goddamn plasma cannons; makes my day when I can get a triple BAR-and-shreck riflesquad. With stickies.

That's because allied picked up schrecks are even better than axis ones. They have like a 1.6x damage modifier against P4s.

[brn4meplz]

I never found accuracy on Zooks to be an issue at killing what they are supposed to(Light Vehicles) the issue for me with Zooks is always penetration. There is a T4 for that. Even still, Medium armour is making a comback and Zooks are finding themselves popular.

[Mister Schmidt]

Despite what I just said, I do actually like the idea of a more AI-type rocket.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Ah Volks you should have been here when Tank Reaper was actually something you would pick as a doctrine choice, man those were the days when you could have a vet3 atgun with TR and Ap rounds and 2 hit stugs with ease.
I even remember the day when a freak bug 1 hitted a full health panzer on the front, shit was so cash.

This was the old one and its a shame it was changed
"Tank Reapers
ATG, Bazooka, Sticky Bomb
+33% Penetration
+25% Accuracy
+20% Damage"

[Hicks58]

I'm not actually sure why they toned down the penetration for Zooks.

Even with 33% more penetration, it's still junk from the front. The extra accuracy and damage meant that if you got a flank on them, Zooks would be cause for a major headache, rather than a simple pain in the arse.

[Mister Schmidt]

Yeah, and this is why it was changed.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/europe-in-ruins/videos/tank-reapers#imagebox

[TheIcelandicManiac]

That is the one that doubled the damadge on ATGs not 25% buff i think.

[Mister Schmidt]

Still gives an idea of how retarded TR used to be

[TheIcelandicManiac]

how about we nerf APCR rounds for TD or Heat rounds for Armor then? they both buff to majestic amounts and yet noone complanes.

But still for a t4 that had allmost no buffs in its t3 and t2 it was a fair and balanced and was just turned into mediocre t4 exept you were runnning mine spam.

[Computer991]

how about we nerf APCR rounds for TD or Heat rounds for Armor then? they both buff to majestic amounts and yet noone complanes.

But still for a t4 that had allmost no buffs in its t3 and t2 it was a fair and balanced and was just turned into mediocre t4 exept you were runnning mine spam.

Don't give them any ideas maniac....

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Well while i am at it maybe i should tell them about the vet 3 scoutcar running top t2 TD while in emplacement scoutcar with more than 70 sight.

[Hicks58]

Yeah, and this is why it was changed.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/europe-in-ruins/videos/tank-reapers#imagebox

Congratulations on showing us a video of TR from over a year ago, and not even close to +33% penetration (That video shows +80% health, damage and penetration for crying out loud). Also congratulations on showing the ATG, rather than zooks.

Shrecks still perform better than Zooks with 33% more penetration.

[Mister Schmidt]

Ah Volks you should have been here when Tank Reaper was actually something you would pick as a doctrine choice, man those were the days when you could have a vet3 atgun with TR and Ap rounds and 2 hit stugs with ease.
I even remember the day when a freak bug 1 hitted a full health panzer on the front, shit was so cash.

Oh I wonder why it was about an atg Hicks, I wonder why

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Well That dose not change that the nerf to TR was way to much to be justified making it an unreasonable T4.

[Hicks58]

Congratulations again Schmidt, if you get a Vet 3 ATG with TR now, and pop AP rounds, you'll do 258.75, and still 2 shot a StuG comfortably. Without AP rounds, you'll do 207 damage, still being capable of 2 shotting a StuG.

EDIT: By the way, the third shot from a Vet 3 ATG w/TR&AP Rounds will knock out a Panzer IV comfortably, and also knock out a Panther. The three rounds will do 776.25 damage.