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[hans]

Are the rangers without any upgrade any good? can they beat grenadiers?

because they are 6 pop right now and i dont know if i can use them without any upgrade with a good or medium effect tbh

[Hicks58]

As far as I'm aware they have the same rifles that Riflemen use.

However, they do have the advantage of 65 health and Elite armour compared to the Rifleman's 55 health and Infantry armour.

Also, if you get the right doc you can push that up to 70 health.

They should rip up Grenadiers at close range, but I can't speak for medium or long.

[aeroblade56]

As far as I'm aware they have the same rifles that Riflemen use.

However, they do have the advantage of 65 health and Elite armour compared to the Rifleman's 55 health and Infantry armour.

Also, if you get the right doc you can push that up to 70 health.

They should rip up Grenadiers at close range, but I can't speak for medium or long.

Nah they wont you arent thinking about how all grens come standard with medkits.

[Hicks58]

I hope you didn't just forget about the delay before they actually activate?

Even if they are activated upon sight of the Rangers... That's more than enough time for them to close the distance before they kick in. As soon as they get to close range, the medkits won't be enough to counteract the Rangers firepower and resilience at close range.

Heh, we need Myst to go crunch the numbers on this one, I'm more of an armour guy when it comes to figuring DPS.

[aeroblade56]

I dont know vanilla rangers do well against vanilla volks but other then that i havent had good luck with them.

[LeoPhone]

just use my script, or even this site: http://dow2.info/coh/Zaxis/rifles/
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=19104.0

medkits heal 0.8hp per second per soldier and lasts 1 minute

[aeroblade56]

Apparently the lee enfield is worse then the garand?. and the Bren does less then a bar.So can you apply that with and without officer bufs

[Mysthalin]

Hicks - the calculations aren't hard, they're just time-consuming.

Assumptions = rangers charge, no cover either side, units in squad target one squad member at time.

Calc time required to cross distance L-M. Expected damage in this time both squads. If losses, adjust further calculations accordingly.

Calc time required to cross distance M-S. Expected damage in this time both squads. If losses, adjust further calculations accordingly.

Then just have a time-series on what's going on (when each gun fires.). When gun damage reaches critical point (80 vs Grens, 65 vs Rangers) you take away one guy firing per volley. Assume leaders are the first to die for both squads to reduce possible bias (leader guns are, on average, worse for both squads - and it makes further calculations easier).

Do not bother yourself with DPS, since it's not a long enough simulation to really matter, especially since rifles are high damage low ROF weapons. Just take shots fired*accuracy each volley and round to nearest number to get "expected" hits and thus expected damage. If two volleys have something like 3.5 hits, then assume first volley to be 3, second volley to be 4 hits to reduce bias. Just be sure to apply same rules to both sides.

All simple stuff, really. Enjoy, don't forget aimtime.

[Hicks58]

Yeah, and that's something I'll delve into properly when I use my infantry for more than glorified cannon fodder. :p

Though looking at pure DPS at short range and squad health, the 6 Rifles of the Rangers will drop 320 health in 12 seconds where 4 Kar's of the Grens will drop 390 health in 16.

Even realising that a huge chunk of calculations is missing from that, it hints heavily at Rangers having a major close range advantage - Should they get there without too much prior loss of health.

[TheVolskinator]

Nilla grens stand a decent chance vs vanilla rangers that cost a third more in pool and manpower.

Lolwut.

Meanwhile german elites eat all that stand before them.

[brn4meplz]

Which elites are those? Stormtroopers that cost alot and are basically just vanilla grens?

Or KCH which the community can't decide are OP or UP?

Maybe you meant the FSJ squad with a shitty rifle? Or Assault Grens which fill an assault role with only average stats?

[AmPM]

Nilla grens stand a decent chance vs vanilla rangers that cost a third more in pool and manpower.

Lolwut.

Meanwhile german elites eat all that stand before them.

Really? Naked Stormtroopers rape everything? Wow!

Wait, what about vanilla Falls without upgrades...yea, not so good either....

[Scotzmen]

Would be interesting to run a few experiments. See which units come off better without any upgrades of buffs.

[skaffa]

I have tried playing with vanilla Rangers using their garands only, its not really worth it nor is it very effective. Wouldnt recommend it. Use rifleman with grenades and smoke nades instead.

[TheVolskinator]

Really? Naked Stormtroopers rape everything? Wow!

Wait, what about vanilla Falls without upgrades...yea, not so good either....

If you think nilla fals suck, you need to shorten your fucking epeen Am. Nilla strorms are a pain in the ass too, even dual shreck squads can peg two or three rifles off of a barsquad and still make it away with all of their shrecks.

[3rdCondor]

Mysthalin is alive!?

tankedit: No unrelated pics please

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=2031.0

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Also I'd love to see vanilla Rangers become able to cloak and flank any support weapons you have lying around.

[Tymathee]

volky and verm, allied fanboys to the death.

[hans]

volky and verm, allied fanboys to the death.

lol

[Vermillion_Hawk]

volky and verm, allied fanboys to the death.

That explains perfectly why my favourite faction is Wehrmacht. There's just some very obvious (in my opinion) inconsistencies with the doctrine design of some American doctrines versus some Wehrmacht doctrines (Blitzkreig in particular), and it just strikes me as a bit of an imbalance.