Addressing the viability of medium armour

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[aeroblade56]

How is this any deffirent then the Terror or blitz mg upgrade for the stug run over?. same idea applies, if you leave your infantry unprotected you will get noob crushed. i crush decent in vcoh ranked games quite often. again when blob of infantry come alone why not crush?

[Spartan_Marine88]

i crush decent in vcoh ranked games quite often. again when blob of infantry come alone why not crush?

of course why not crush. I have no problems with crushing a solo squad of infantry all by itself. In that situation a slow effect from crushing infantry would not be noticed at all.

Its when your cruising around a p4  with an m10 and crush the supporting shrek squad at the same time as killing it that i have an issue.

[aeroblade56]

of course why not crush. I have no problems with crushing a solo squad of infantry all by itself. In that situation a slow effect from crushing infantry would not be noticed at all.

Its when your cruising around a p4  with an m10 and crush the supporting shrek squad at the same time as killing it that i have an issue.

Yeah i understand that i guess but even without crush you still run into the same problem the m10 would just push it back and forth without a schrek shot. Rolcsika just did it to me :L

[Spartan_Marine88]

Yeah i understand that i guess but even without crush you still run into the same problem the m10 would just push it back and forth without a schrek shot. Rolcsika just did it to me :L

Read for fuck sake

LEO HAS SAID THERE IS A MODIFIER SO HE CAN INCREASE SLOW DOWN ON CRUSH. THIS DOES NOT MEAN REMOVE CRUSH IT MEANS YOU WILL LOSE X SPEED EVERY INFANTRY YOU HIT SO IF YOU CRUSH A SQUAD YOUR GONNA MOVE SLOW TILL YOU ACCELERATE BACK UP AGAIN.

I honestly fail to see how this would be a bad thing

[TheVolskinator]

For that, you would need to remove Infantry Crush from the unit.

If you gave it a debuff on crush, I would happily send in Minesweepers as a temporary sticky/treadbreak so I could get off a real sticky/kill it.

Best option, lower accel on M10 to make it harder to crush, refine it's role as the heavy American TD compared to the fast skirmisher AT that is the Hellcat.

The M18 was designed as a mission-specific TD, and had a better gun with a longer range, more damage, higher penetration etc etc as it's primary attributes. More then anything, IMO the Hellcat should become the long range sniper and the M10 kept as a skirmisher. The slightly lower penetration rates of the hellcat would make it less LOLWIN at extreme range without facilitating the need for mondo stat changes. Almost like a U.S. hetzer; long range, camo, all trick pony that doesn't excell against one thing.

[pqumsieh]

lol, Spartan you just trolled yourself so hard there...you are yelling at aero for not reading but I don't think you really read his post carefully...

He said even without crush you can still gimp infantry by pushing them, he said nothing about not having crush whatsoever. He was merely supposing what would happen if there was no crush.

@ Tank and his comment regarding vCOH and EIR. <sarcasm> You are totally right, there are almost zero differences between this mod and vCOH. We aren't using similar unit designs, the same combat systems, the same unit AI, or any of the other features inherent within vCOH...I don't get why people even try to compare the two...its madness </sarcasm>

This discussion is pointless at this point. Just remove crush completely as a test and see how it impacts gameplay (or modify it). You guys can discuss this for ages and it really means jack shit. Just try things out, if they don't work revert!

[Scotzmen]

Crush doesn't affect the Sherman crab flail does it? Who doesn't want to see mince meat Germans.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Crush doesn't affect the Sherman crab flail does it? Who doesn't want to see mince meat Germans.

No it doesn't but you get slowed immensly to use it

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Crush doesn't affect the Sherman crab flail does it? Who doesn't want to see mince meat Germans.

it lengthens(i think) the crush box of the sherman and on top of that infantry wont take it as an hindering like the normal tanks do so they love walking into it.

Well from my own exepriance they love running into it so yea.

[PonySlaystation]

The problem isn't that crush is too effective or that US TD are too fast. The problem is that you can have 6-7 of them. Why bother with a Sherman when it's so much more expensive.

[Spartan_Marine88]

@ Tank and his comment regarding vCOH and EIR. <sarcasm> You are totally right, there are almost zero differences between this mod and vCOH. We aren't using similar unit designs, the same combat systems, the same unit AI, or any of the other features inherent within vCOH...I don't get why people even try to compare the two...its madness </sarcasm>

The biggest issue between this mod and vcoh is that in some cases we use too much of their balances. It doesn't get more clear then the fact that while it may use the same art and engine at the core its quite a different game and in alot of cases some of the old balances that people cling to are just not viable for EIRR

[Demon767]

oh my fucking atheist god.

Tank, dont even need to reply to your first post, i got all the information out in regards and opposing exactly what you said. you should know better then to argue that point.\ if you actually read my shit.

SO why is that tactic not being used now? etc etc useless shit....

So as my quote is in regards to which is obviously didnt read properly due to RAGING, is about an increased slow effect on tanks (an idea to combat this mythical problem) which somebody suggested somewheres else, not when tanks have no tank crush.

So Tank, remove yourself from this balance discussion. or you are just going to be theory crafting, glass half empty guy.

Read for fuck sake

LEO HAS SAID THERE IS A MODIFIER yadda yadda...

As i already pointed out that suggestion wont work, you'll create a problem after that.

So if no one has any actual points to add, and is not being a pre-active responder or a theory crafter. move along.

[Hicks58]

I'm gonna stick to my guns and say make mobile AT high performance, high cost, low durability.

As for crushing, that's everybody else's ball park. I'm still of the opinion that the M10 is capable of being too multi-purpose though.

[Demon767]

maybe making TDs a whole lot more expensive, a WHOLE lot more. like only being able to buy a maximum of 4 m10s (so only reasonable players will buy only 2). reason behind this is that careful use of TD can make 2-3 tank kills

THAT expensive. probably huge FU investment instead of a even mp,fu investment.

probably make medium armor a better investment because you wouldnt want to lose a TD

Did you miss this Hicks?  
I personally dont like changing any unit stats, unless its your last resort, LAST RESORT, as in you need to repopulate the earth and the only people left is you, and smokaz. Atleast you'll try and make it work.

[Smokaz]

Lets repopulate the world tym

[Tymathee]

Lets repopulate the world tym

Wtf...

[AmPM]

Easiest way to prevent crush.

Select unit, hit "H". Make sure they are NOT up against an object they can't move through....

lolz as M10 tries to crush but they all move. Then it dies to AT.

[tank130]

oh my fucking atheist god.
RAGING,

You are the only person in this thread (other then a few caps by Spartan) who is having an issue with raging. Everyone else is having a pretty reasonable discussion of pros / cons and possible fixes of crush.

We get it Demon, you are apposed to removing crush, but try not to be a complete fucking asshole about it.

[8thRifleRegiment]

So...i think the general consenus is crush should have more of a penalty, and Medium tanks or tank destroyers need a price increase/decrease

[Spartan_Marine88]

So...i think the general consenus is crush should have more of a penalty, and Medium tanks or tank destroyers need a price increase/decrease

yep