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Addressing the viability of medium armour
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Topic: Addressing the viability of medium armour (Read 49160 times)
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aeroblade56
Development
Posts: 3871
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #120 on:
March 28, 2012, 02:13:34 pm »
How is this any deffirent then the Terror or blitz mg upgrade for the stug run over?. same idea applies, if you leave your infantry unprotected you will get noob crushed. i crush decent in vcoh ranked games quite often. again when blob of infantry come alone why not crush?
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Quote from: Hicks58 on January 08, 2016, 05:47:37 pm
You are welcome to your opinion.
You are also welcome to be wrong.
Spartan_Marine88
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #121 on:
March 28, 2012, 02:24:02 pm »
Quote from: aeroblade56 on March 28, 2012, 02:13:34 pm
i crush decent in vcoh ranked games quite often. again when blob of infantry come alone why not crush?
of course why not crush. I have no problems with crushing a solo squad of infantry all by itself. In that situation a slow effect from crushing infantry would not be noticed at all.
Its when your cruising around a p4 with an m10 and crush the supporting shrek squad at the same time as killing it that i have an issue.
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Quote from: Sachaztan on March 24, 2013, 03:49:43 pm
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aeroblade56
Development
Posts: 3871
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #122 on:
March 28, 2012, 02:26:25 pm »
Quote from: Spartan_Marine88 on March 28, 2012, 02:24:02 pm
of course why not crush. I have no problems with crushing a solo squad of infantry all by itself. In that situation a slow effect from crushing infantry would not be noticed at all.
Its when your cruising around a p4 with an m10 and crush the supporting shrek squad at the same time as killing it that i have an issue.
Yeah i understand that i guess but even without crush you still run into the same problem the m10 would just push it back and forth without a schrek shot. Rolcsika just did it to me :L
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Spartan_Marine88
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #123 on:
March 28, 2012, 02:30:17 pm »
Quote from: aeroblade56 on March 28, 2012, 02:26:25 pm
Yeah i understand that i guess but even without crush you still run into the same problem the m10 would just push it back and forth without a schrek shot. Rolcsika just did it to me :L
Read for fuck sake
LEO HAS SAID THERE IS A MODIFIER SO HE CAN INCREASE SLOW DOWN ON CRUSH. THIS DOES NOT MEAN REMOVE CRUSH IT MEANS YOU WILL LOSE X SPEED EVERY INFANTRY YOU HIT SO IF YOU CRUSH A SQUAD YOUR GONNA MOVE SLOW TILL YOU ACCELERATE BACK UP AGAIN.
I honestly fail to see how this would be a bad thing
«
Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 02:32:13 pm by Spartan_Marine88
»
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TheVolskinator
Administrator / Lead Developer
Posts: 3012
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #124 on:
March 28, 2012, 02:33:14 pm »
Quote from: AmPM on March 28, 2012, 11:29:26 am
For that, you would need to remove Infantry Crush from the unit.
If you gave it a debuff on crush, I would happily send in Minesweepers as a temporary sticky/treadbreak so I could get off a real sticky/kill it.
Best option, lower accel on M10 to make it harder to crush, refine it's role as the heavy American TD compared to the fast skirmisher AT that is the Hellcat.
The M18 was designed as a mission-specific TD, and had a better gun with a longer range, more damage, higher penetration etc etc as it's primary attributes. More then anything, IMO the Hellcat should become the long range sniper and the M10 kept as a skirmisher. The slightly lower penetration rates of the hellcat would make it less LOLWIN at extreme range without facilitating the need for mondo stat changes. Almost like a U.S. hetzer; long range, camo, all trick pony that doesn't excell against one thing.
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Quote from: tank130
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pqumsieh
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2367
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #125 on:
March 28, 2012, 02:43:41 pm »
lol, Spartan you just trolled yourself so hard there...you are yelling at aero for not reading but I don't think you really read his post carefully...
He said even without crush you can still gimp infantry by pushing them, he said nothing about not having crush whatsoever. He was merely supposing what would happen if there was no crush.
@ Tank and his comment regarding vCOH and EIR. <sarcasm> You are totally right, there are almost zero differences between this mod and vCOH. We aren't using similar unit designs, the same combat systems, the same unit AI, or any of the other features inherent within vCOH...I don't get why people even try to compare the two...its madness </sarcasm>
This discussion is pointless at this point. Just remove crush completely as a test and see how it impacts gameplay (or modify it). You guys can discuss this for ages and it really means jack shit. Just try things out, if they don't work revert!
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Common sense is not so common after all.
Scotzmen
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2035
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #126 on:
March 28, 2012, 03:08:22 pm »
Crush doesn't affect the Sherman crab flail does it? Who doesn't want to see mince meat Germans.
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Spartan_Marine88
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #127 on:
March 28, 2012, 03:30:07 pm »
Quote from: Scotzmen on March 28, 2012, 03:08:22 pm
Crush doesn't affect the Sherman crab flail does it? Who doesn't want to see mince meat Germans.
No it doesn't but you get slowed immensly to use it
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TheIcelandicManiac
Resident forum troll. Fucked unkn0wns mom
Posts: 6294
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #128 on:
March 28, 2012, 03:33:18 pm »
Quote from: Scotzmen on March 28, 2012, 03:08:22 pm
Crush doesn't affect the Sherman crab flail does it? Who doesn't want to see mince meat Germans.
it lengthens(i think) the crush box of the sherman and on top of that infantry wont take it as an hindering like the normal tanks do so they love walking into it.
Well from my own exepriance they love running into it so yea.
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PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #129 on:
March 28, 2012, 03:39:24 pm »
The problem isn't that crush is too effective or that US TD are too fast. The problem is that you can have 6-7 of them. Why bother with a Sherman when it's so much more expensive.
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Spartan_Marine88
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #130 on:
March 28, 2012, 03:39:49 pm »
Quote from: pqumsieh on March 28, 2012, 02:43:41 pm
@ Tank and his comment regarding vCOH and EIR. <sarcasm> You are totally right, there are almost zero differences between this mod and vCOH. We aren't using similar unit designs, the same combat systems, the same unit AI, or any of the other features inherent within vCOH...I don't get why people even try to compare the two...its madness </sarcasm>
The biggest issue between this mod and vcoh is that in some cases we use too much of their balances. It doesn't get more clear then the fact that while it may use the same art and engine at the core its quite a different game and in alot of cases some of the old balances that people cling to are just not viable for EIRR
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Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #131 on:
March 28, 2012, 04:04:41 pm »
oh my fucking atheist god.
Tank, dont even need to reply to your first post, i got all the information out in regards and opposing exactly what you said. you should know better then to argue that point.\ if you actually read my shit.
Quote from: tank130 on March 28, 2012, 10:59:59 am
SO why is that tactic not being used now? etc etc useless shit....
So as my quote is in regards to which is obviously didnt read properly due to
RAGING
, is about an increased slow effect on tanks (an idea to combat this mythical problem) which somebody suggested somewheres else, not when tanks have no tank crush.
So Tank, remove yourself from this balance discussion. or you are just going to be theory crafting, glass half empty guy.
Quote from: Spartan_Marine88 on March 28, 2012, 02:30:17 pm
Read for fuck sake
LEO HAS SAID THERE IS A MODIFIER yadda yadda...
As i already pointed out that suggestion wont work, you'll create a problem after that.
So if no one has any actual points to add, and is not being a pre-active responder or a theory crafter. move along.
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Generalleutnant of The Reichs Wolves
Nevergetsputonlistguy767
Hicks58
Development
Posts: 5343
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #132 on:
March 28, 2012, 04:14:41 pm »
I'm gonna stick to my guns and say make mobile AT high performance, high cost, low durability.
As for crushing, that's everybody else's ball park. I'm still of the opinion that the M10 is capable of being too multi-purpose though.
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Quote from: brn4meplz on November 05, 2012, 10:45:05 am
I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
Quote from: Mysthalin on March 27, 2014, 04:57:09 pm
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #133 on:
March 28, 2012, 04:21:50 pm »
Quote from: Demon767 on March 27, 2012, 11:13:32 pm
maybe making TDs a whole lot more expensive, a WHOLE lot more. like only being able to buy a maximum of 4 m10s (so only reasonable players will buy only 2). reason behind this is that careful use of TD can make 2-3 tank kills
THAT expensive. probably huge FU investment instead of a even mp,fu investment.
probably make medium armor a better investment because you wouldnt want to lose a TD
Did you miss this Hicks?
I personally dont like changing any unit stats, unless its your last resort, LAST RESORT, as in you need to repopulate the earth and the only people left is you, and smokaz. Atleast you'll try and make it work.
Logged
Smokaz
Honoured Member
Posts: 11418
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #134 on:
March 28, 2012, 05:07:16 pm »
Lets repopulate the world tym
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SlippedHerTheBigOne: big penis puma
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SlippedHerTheBigOne: ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #135 on:
March 28, 2012, 05:37:09 pm »
Quote from: Smokaz on March 28, 2012, 05:07:16 pm
Lets repopulate the world tym
Wtf...
Logged
Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #136 on:
March 28, 2012, 07:48:28 pm »
Easiest way to prevent crush.
Select unit, hit "H". Make sure they are NOT up against an object they can't move through....
lolz as M10 tries to crush but they all move. Then it dies to AT.
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tank130
Sugar Daddy
Posts: 8889
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #137 on:
March 28, 2012, 08:11:15 pm »
Quote from: Demon767 on March 28, 2012, 04:04:41 pm
oh my fucking atheist god.
RAGING
,
You are the only person in this thread (other then a few caps by Spartan) who is having an issue with raging. Everyone else is having a pretty reasonable discussion of pros / cons and possible fixes of crush.
We get it Demon, you are apposed to removing crush, but try not to be a complete fucking asshole about it.
Logged
Quote
Geez, while Wind was banned I forgot that he is, in fact, totally insufferable
Quote from: Hicks58 on June 05, 2013, 02:14:06 pm
I'm not going to lie Tig, 9/10 times you open your mouth, I'm overwhelmed with the urge to put my foot in it.
8thRifleRegiment
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2210
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #138 on:
March 28, 2012, 09:19:41 pm »
So...i think the general consenus is crush should have more of a penalty, and Medium tanks or tank destroyers need a price increase/decrease
Logged
I will never forget the rage we enduced together
Quote from: brn4meplz on March 08, 2013, 12:46:54 pm
Ohh Good, AmPm can pay in Doubloons.
Spartan_Marine88
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838
Re: Addressing the viability of medium armour
«
Reply #139 on:
March 28, 2012, 09:29:13 pm »
Quote from: 8thRifleRegiment on March 28, 2012, 09:19:41 pm
So...i think the general consenus is crush should have more of a penalty, and Medium tanks or tank destroyers need a price increase/decrease
yep
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