Crush or not to Crush - That is the question

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[tank130]

What the poll clearly states is that the Dev team needs to take a serious look at the issue at hand.

For all you little cry babies who are so scared of a possible change that might happen that you do not like, RELAX!!!!!!

It's a fucking pole to see if it even warrants discussion. If the pole clearly showed that 2 out of 28 people  did not want a change, then the conversation would be over.

But what it says is the community is divided. In fact, what it say is if we do nothing `57% of the community will be happy and the rest will be unhappy.

As dev team, will obviously want to have more than 57% of the community happy with what we are doing. That means we need to discuss it further and decide what is best for the community.

I can also tell you something else - the dev team would never base it's decisions about game changing changes on one fucking poll........ are you guys fucking retarded or what?

[aeroblade56]

What the poll clearly states is that the Dev team needs to take a serious look at the issue at hand.

For all you little cry babies who are so scared of a possible change that might happen that you do not like, RELAX!!!!!!

It's a fucking pole to see if it even warrants discussion. If the pole clearly showed that 2 out of 28 people  did not want a change, then the conversation would be over.

But what it says is the community is divided. In fact, what it say is if we do nothing `57% of the community will be happy and the rest will be unhappy.

As dev team, will obviously want to have more than 57% of the community happy with what we are doing. That means we need to discuss it further and decide what is best for the community.

I can also tell you something else - the dev team would never base it's decisions about game changing changes on one fucking poll........ are you guys fucking retarded or what?

Dear Tank. Thank you for posting a reasonable answer to a reasonable thread.

[Hicks58]

In fact, the guy that really started the question in regards to crush and a viable alternative was Hicks.

Does this mean I get a cookie?

[tank130]

Dear Tank. Thank you for posting a reasonable answer to a reasonable thread.

Your welcome.
It was exactly the type of response warranted by such accusations and posts....


So lets get back on topic shall we.......

[hans]

because of the fact that crush is for me not an issue and after all form my point of view not a thing u should focus on now to change
(because hell there are a lot more things to to regarding doctrines as an example),
i dont really wanna listen to those who wanna change it. with me i have more then 50 % of the community and u still think its important to change something ( because i think u wanna change something, otherwise u wouldnt start this one here).
Well just go ahead change basic mechanics of coh instead of focusing on much more important issues.

+2 for ur try to make this more serious tbh

[nikomas]

Alright, I'll vote for selective no crush and here is why... Let's just take the M10 since it's a good example.

M10 - Speedy & Cheap _{(For what it can dish out)} Tank Destroyer. The unit's sole role in the game is a hardcounter to heavier armor much akin to the ATG's but with more mobility.

The M10 as a unit is designed to counter armor and only counter armored targets as far as the game goes, it has absolute shit accuarcy against infartry and no MG support so this much is written in stone. It is not designed to and should not engage any infartry that can put a dent in it unless absolutley neccacery.

And in comes it's speed + crush, all of a sudden the M10 (Sole Anti-Armor Role) stands a resonable chance at taking a dual shreck squad down with it, even standing a decent chance at comming out of that rush alive. Crush alone provides our pure AT unit resonable AI capability at no extra cost, THAT is off balance... Especially in EIR were you cant simply retreat when it's about to steamroll you.

Or to put it this way...

Tank Destroyers _{(M18, M10, Maurder, Gechutz, Nas etc)}  - Light/no inf Crush (The LV one that cannot crush infartry?)
Medium/Heavy Armor - The meduims are supposed to be multirole and the german heavies are to slow to crush anyway.

That's my take on it anyway if it's going to be an across the board thing, but really, the only two problem units are the M10/18's as far as I've seen, anything else is to slow to be an effective RapeRam

[tank130]

Uh - oh nikomas....... you just put yourself in the noob category.....

But in all seriousness. What you have written truly is the issue at hand, and may need to be addressed?

I am wondering if the StuG should be in that mix as well? The stug is not all that great of an AT vehicle, BUT - if it could not crush and did not have an "instasupress" mg, we could probably look at increasing it's ability as a TD without changing the cost... there by making it a good chose for it's intended role.

I am on the fence completely when it comes to the StuG. M10 is definitely an issue IMO.

[nikomas]

I dont see what part about that puts me as a noob, but feel free to explain it to me, is it because I'm not relying on the "I KNOW it's true because I'm a vet!" or "Shut up noob you know nothing" arguments?

Seriously thou, people throw noob around to much, I still have my 06/7 CoH disk



As for the StuG, it is an Assault Gun and not a tank destroyer. This is not using any RL logic but the thing is represented as such in the game to, it is pretty much a medium tank without a turret to save on resources. StuG's actually fit the Jack of all Trades medium tank role really well, if you can look past the lack of a turret... sometimes, that'll kill ya

[Spartan_Marine88]

As for the StuG, it is an Assault Gun and not a tank destroyer.

Yes it was designated an assault gun, but was primarily used as a Tank Destroyer.

[tank130]

@ Spartan..... that was not very nice.

@ Niko... I called you a noob in sarcasm. Some members of the community feel the only reason we are having this discussion is because noobs complained...

[aeroblade56]

M10 is only good for crush haha. Honestly i have seen the m10 miss a bunch of times and end up losing to a p4 because 2-3 shots in a row hit the ground. the m18 already takes the TD cake. What i think you should do is make them Different i hardly see m10's they are so weak they are usually suicide machines.

[tankmaster23]

 Ive said this same thing years ago the main gun and crush make the M-10 the best tank for the cost the only weakness is its armor but the m-10 makes up for this with speed.. look what you pay for the panther and you have no Ai ability with it what so ever in comparison with m-10 so ya TD should be that ..

the whole tank not running over infantry thing is mute try it with Panther p4 sherman you get the picture


 Rocksitter

[Smokaz]

W0W, they are actually going to remove crush? What is the next sleight of hand they will remove? It takes training to be a master infantry mower, just like it takes training to predict flanks before they happen and block his vehicles with your vehicles.

All the infantry crushers are vulnerable to concentrated firepower and they have to come close to do in your inf. Its always been the allied strength to operate on the flanks further away from support, while axis has this conga line from border to border more or less scattered out. If infantry is being crushed on the flanks before they can deal enough at damage, PE needs to send inf ht's and wehr needs to send out their panther/stug/geschutz. Though Wehr wont usually have something like the inf ht or the marder (only terror has low pop geschutz) they do have VEHICLE MINES which imo are good but could need to be more effective because a m8 on a road seems way to fast even after hitting a crippling trap, as its called.

I mean really axis has very mobile long ranged AT, and they dont HAVE to scout with infantry ALL the time. They can scout with other stuff and move the cappers behind it. Having a omniscience player or some bikes helps a lot, you can have marders or panthers ready to gib the tank as it charges your inf.

For pop axis has more and faster AT. Its not really fair to compare a marder or a geschutz vs m10/hellcats because the latters cost more pop, so you are expected to be able to manage more than 1 unit vs his 1 unit aka bring enough stuff to kill em. What would you rather have, a 3 man shrek squad and a marder or one FF? Really the high population of the tank destroyers compared to geschutz/marder justifies their ability to take on inf as well.

[CrazyWR]

holy shit the voice of reason?  Also...poll still shows people wanting crush to be left as is outnumbering others. 

[Jodomar]

holy shit the voice of reason?  Also...poll still shows people wanting crush to be left as is outnumbering others. 

Actually, the pole says most people want to nerf crush in one way or another.

[CrazyWR]

19 > 18...

[aeroblade56]

Great now i have to make more accounts.

[Demon767]

well you can discuss it all you want, if the majority vote for NO CHANGE, that is, i repeat, NO CHANGE, that means, any change that happens will go against the majority. well yall just cant go doing that!

Btw i want a list of those who voted, so we dont have any ninja dev fixing or smurf accounts please.

[nikomas]

Yes it was designated an assault gun, but was primarily used as a Tank Destroyer.

I'm pretty sure it's main usage was infartry support, but being a turretless tank with a lower profile it was flexible in some areas.

That's why I said it's basically a medium tank without a turret, because that's exactly what it is.

[Zamochit]

I'm pretty sure it's main usage was infartry support, but being a turretless tank with a lower profile it was flexible in some areas.

That's why I said it's basically a medium tank without a turret, because that's exactly what it is.

the stug is an assault gun,

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=stug

its that easy to find if he's right or wrong so yeah you're right, it is "infantry support" but that's what assault guns were for and if you read the description in wikipedia, it says what he says.

The Sturmgeschütz III (StuG III) assault gun was Germany's most produced armoured fighting vehicle during World War II. *snip* the StuG was continually modified and was widely employed as a tank destroyer.

and under assault gun

An assault gun is a gun or howitzer mounted on a motor vehicle or armored chassis, designed for use in the direct fire role in support of infantry when attacking other infantry or fortified positions.

so basically, there was no reason for you to say what you said, you wanted to be right and make him wrong but you're both right and you look like a pompous jackass.