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Author Topic: [ALL] Gameplay?!?!  (Read 11483 times)
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hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2012, 01:20:02 pm »

well and now we actually discuss about sth that really has mostly nothing to do with the suggestions.

nicely done +1
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Also, bad analogy ground, My vegetables never pissed on my ego when I decided they defeated me and gave up on dessert.
aeroblade56 Offline
Development
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Posts: 3871



« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2012, 01:21:14 pm »

I like some of the suggestions, but i dislike infantry sprint. doesnt that kinda make PE sprint less usefull?.
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You are welcome to your opinion.

You are also welcome to be wrong.
hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2012, 01:24:25 pm »

I like some of the suggestions, but i dislike infantry sprint. doesnt that kinda make PE sprint less usefull?.

if this gets in, the PE sprint will get removed. and well it was my idea to give sprint aafter the usage a disadvantage, while the usage gives an advantage.
but if the idea is not good we can actually kick it out of the window. i dont even like the idea by myself that much Smiley lol
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aeroblade56 Offline
Development
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Posts: 3871



« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2012, 01:30:45 pm »

Getting rid of supression fire From bars are like 70% of the reason you pay 80 munitions for them since the platform is a bit weak itself.
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hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2012, 01:32:52 pm »

Getting rid of supression fire From bars are like 70% of the reason you pay 80 munitions for them since the platform is a bit weak itself.

well give them more damage on long range and more acc or so ... short: make them better then
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TheWindCriesMary Offline
The Ethics Police
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2630


« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2012, 02:32:56 pm »

As requested here is why I said I think this list represents a lot of the reasoning and thinking that I think is fundamentally flawed about how EiR's community approaches balance. Originally I just kept it to a short paragraph stating my overall objection because as Tym noted it would take a massive post to address each bad idea, but as you've insisted here it is.

I left a few off because some aren't too bad, but most are.



*allied and axis mortars are getting same range*

Mirror balancing. Why is this neccesary? So that both mortars can be exactly the same so that the game will be "fair"? I think that is a very bad idea. One mortar gets more range, the other gets a better ROF and damage. This gives the game tactical depth by  having weaknesses and strengths instead of every unit being the exact same on both sides. Homogenizing the mortars serves no other purpose other than to dumb down gameplay.

Quote
*adding long/medium/short range damage and penetrationsystem for tanks ( tiger is not getting penetrated by the atgun from long range, but gets alot more damage in the shortrange of the atg...)*

This suggestion doesn't make much sense because it already largely exists. A tiger is significantly less likely to get penetrated at long ranges by an ATG than it is in short ranges. Conversely, a tiger at short range will take significantly more damage from an ATG because it is significantly more likely to get penetrated in the first place.

Quote

*commando mainline infantry (maybe also called Commando Elite Group) is a 4 man squad with moving cloak like pe sniper with stens(additional) or 1 bren(additional) with same health as stormtroopers*

Why do commandos need stormtroopers? What purpose does this serve other than to rob Blitz of it's unique unit in the interest of homogenizing gameplay? There is absolutely no need for this unit other than mirror balancing.

Quote

*opel blitz as infantry haftrack for all pe and axis coys*

WM has a infantry half track already, it's called the Axis halftrack. It is almost exactly the same as the m3 halftrack. There is no point to giving them an opel blitz, especially when it's already used for the HT and the 88. [/quote]

Quote
*wehrmacht p4 available for Tank Destroyer company as an unlock (without skirts and mg gunner ontop)*

First of all, a p4 without skirts or MG would be absolutely useless. Secondly, why on earth would PE TD need this? It's not good for killing tanks, and it's not as good at fighting inf as a P4 IST, so what would be the point of this? Absolutely no. It's just another example of the line of thinking that armies like Brits or PE need to have everything, when they were specifically designed to have unique and characteristic strengths and weaknesses. EiR has already done way too much to attempt to "fill in" supposed gaps and it's dumbed down gameplay significantly.

Quote
*adding 75mm sherman for the commonwealth Royal Canadian Engineers as an unlock*

There is absolutely no point to this. RE already unlocks 3 tanks, why should we further contribute to the already huge problem of no-one picking the regular Churchill by adding another choice on to it? Why should there be a second choice on top of the cromwell that risks making the cromwell redundant?

Doctrines don't need 2-3 choices to fill the exact same role just because of some whim notion that every army should get the exact same units.

Quote
*1 man (fallschirmjäger sniper like) commando sniper unlock for Commando doc*

Why? So that the unique commando sniper unit commandos already has, with it's playstyle that already matches the commando mechanic of temporary smoke camoflauge can be replaced by one that's exactly like the PE sniper?  Let's take all character and specific weakness/strength out of every doctrine and just give everyone the same sniper while we're at it...


Quote
*adding US jeep for all commonwealth coys*

One of the things that makes CW interesting is that it has different ways of dealing with snipers and different ways of scouting. In fact, even more so than PE the CW requires the most amount of creativity and innovation in order to deal with snipers. It's definitely a heightened challenge, but made up in other areas by the unique strengths that CW has in other fields. DO we abolish this weakness/opportunity in the name of "fairness"? Why should CW get jeeps other than to just make them have the same obvious counter for snipers as every other faction.

Terrible.

Quote
*hetzer gets TankDestroyer like changes ( maingun more penetration more damage, acc like the firefly against inf, 45 range in the row of allied tankdestroyers)*


The hetzer as it is right now is in my opinion one of the best tanks in the game (technically a SPG but for the purposes of here I'll call it a tank). Many people disagree with me and think it is terrible. That makes me like it more and convinces me more that it's a great tank rather than less since most people in this mod can't micro anything that doesn't do tons of damage, have a really fast rotating turrent, and a healthy amount of hitpoints.

The worst thing we could do is dumb down this unit, make it just like everything else, and remove it's unique set of weaknesses and strengths in favour of aligning it closer to allied "TD's".  The hetzer has a small, weak gun, low health, great sight/range and good armour. It isn't easy to use, but if used properly can be very effective. Changing it in the way you described has no logical purpose other than apparent whim.

Quote
*Panzergrenadiers of the Pe can get grenadier grenades from wehrmacht, no incendiary grenades, only for SE as unlock*

Why? So PE infantry can be more like every other mainline infantry and less unique?

Quote
*suppression fire is getting removed from all weapons (bar, lmg, ...), only mgs or mounted mgs are getting suppressionfire after 5 secs. all tank mounted mgs are getting suppressionfire*

Why on earth would this be done?

Quote
*jagdpanther gets tiger range and additional vet3 + 3 range and a better accurracy against infantry (like the stug acc vs inf)*

Jagpanther has great range at the moment, and fantastic accuracy vs infantry. This change would make no sense.

Quote
*bulldozer for sherman croc gives it pershing armour for 10 secs, afterwards bulldozer ability cant be used for 50 secs*

Um... what? Does the bulldozer come with a built-in forcefield generator or something?

Quote
* flamerupgrade gives the pioneers of wehrmacht and usa elite armour. (140 mun for flamer)

Flamerupgrade, intuitively, would give the pioneers worse armour rather than elite. It's a giant cannister of flammable liquid on their back, not a kevlar body suit.

Quote
*fallschirmjägers are getting bundle grenades instead of incendiary grenades (no cloak buff from doc, fallschirmägers are getting same moving cloak like the fallschirmäger sniper, only 1 use and 90 mun for bundle grenade)*

This turns FJs into stormtroopers for no reason other than to turn FJs into stormtroopers. Homogenization strikes again
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Vermillion Hawk: Do you ever make a post that doesnt make you come across as an extreme douchebag?

Just sayin'
Tymathee Offline
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2012, 03:03:57 pm »

here's an idea. Take away Cromwell from RCA, give them Ram aka Sherman with British upgrades (no .50cal, smoke or upgun but can get commander)

that would be fun and "realistic" since if i remember correctly, the canadians didn't use the cromwell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_tank

and although it says it only used it for training and used the actual Sherman, just a name would suffice
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"

Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
TheVolskinator Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 3012



« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 03:07:51 pm »

Gameplay > realism.
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Quote from: tank130
I want to ensure we have a 100% decision on the process before we do the wipe.
If not, then I wipe, then someone gets something they shouldn't, then it gets abused, then the shit hits the fan and then I ban shab.

Getting EiR:R Released on Steam

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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2012, 03:11:15 pm »

here's an idea. Take away Cromwell from RCA, give them Ram aka Sherman with British upgrades (no .50cal, smoke or upgun but can get commander)

that would be fun and "realistic" since if i remember correctly, the canadians didn't use the cromwell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_tank

and although it says it only used it for training and used the actual Sherman, just a name would suffice

"As built, the Ram was never used in combat as a tank, but for crew training in Great Britain up to mid 1944"

Yea, totally more realistic!
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Spartan_Marine88 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838



« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2012, 03:13:24 pm »

"As built, the Ram was never used in combat as a tank, but for crew training in Great Britain up to mid 1944"


keep on reading

"The observation post vehicles and conversions of the Ram did see active service in Europe. The tanks were rebuilt in army workshops near the front line."
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Yes that's me, the special snowflake.
TheVolskinator Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 3012



« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2012, 03:14:34 pm »

Owned  Cheesy
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2012, 03:17:02 pm »

keep on reading

"The observation post vehicles and conversions of the Ram did see active service in Europe. The tanks were rebuilt in army workshops near the front line."

Which would not be a Ram, they became turretless OP vehicles and APCs....
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Spartan_Marine88 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838



« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2012, 04:10:05 pm »

Which would not be a Ram, they became turretless OP vehicles and APCs....

Or flame tanks and artillery pieces
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3rdCondor Offline
Donator
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Posts: 1536


« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2012, 05:34:33 pm »

I'm a little uneasy about buffing the range for already awesome tanks, but I can see how you feel that they deserve the buff.

I agree with the range equality on mortars.

I disagree with giving RE regular shermans because they already have a wide variety of decent tank unlocks. I do, however, believe that it is a very good idea for one of the other doctrines just to share the love. This idea revolves around the idea of giving jumbos to infantry doc. Jumbos would seem to belong to armored doc, but they're more useful for infantry players. Altogether, I like the idea of giving the brits a 75mm sherman.

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No tits, but i will bake a cake then eat it in honour of Sir Condor The 3rd
fuck the pgren rifle, fucking dogshit weapon
My beautiful black pussy won
aeroblade56 Offline
Development
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Posts: 3871



« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2012, 05:47:47 pm »

I'm a little uneasy about buffing the range for already awesome tanks, but I can see how you feel that they deserve the buff.

I agree with the range equality on mortars.

I disagree with giving RE regular shermans because they already have a wide variety of decent tank unlocks. I do, however, believe that it is a very good idea for one of the other doctrines just to share the love. This idea revolves around the idea of giving jumbos to infantry doc. Jumbos would seem to belong to armored doc, but they're more useful for infantry players. Altogether, I like the idea of giving the brits a 75mm sherman.


Why is that? a cromwell performs better then a sherman AI wise on a regular basis just today i had 21 kills on my cromwell. and RE already has the churchill mk6 which has the sherman gun.
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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2012, 05:56:46 pm »

75mm Sherman with .50cal will usually out-perform Cromwells by quite the margin, not to mention the better armour means it actually bounces something once in a while.

It's only really with the RCA buffs that you see Cromwells turn into the true AI monsters that people claim. Even then, it's after you get a CCT into the mix to knock the reload down a notch to make it realised.
Logged

I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
aeroblade56 Offline
Development
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Posts: 3871



« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2012, 07:14:47 pm »

must be a user preference, i used double repairs RE without plaiting and without CCT got 21 kills off one. But cant get a kill of a sherman to save my life. As for the bouncing I have never been so afraid of AT rifles before now.
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CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2012, 09:51:07 pm »

I disagree with literally every suggestion except the very first one to increase MP to 10k
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1. New tactics? it's like JAWS, first one in the water dies

RCA-land where shells fall like raindrops and the Captain is an invincible god
AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2012, 10:06:39 pm »

I disagree with literally every suggestion except the very first one to increase MP to 10k

And even that will just result in end of game capping/recrew squads....
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hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2012, 10:21:00 pm »

And even that will just result in end of game capping/recrew squads....

then we higher the population from 25 to 30.
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